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  • #61
    I thought I would give a bit of an update on where I am at with the Healey guard.
    Mistakes I made and what I think I learned.
    In Peter's first video on the Healey guard he mentions and shows that the puckers forming and the rear end of the guard should be laid back a bit.
    Not to tuck or shrink them in to early or it would cause the edge to turn up to fast and create the wrong shape.
    I got what he was saying, it made perfect sense to me.
    So that's what I did.

    So I got carried away and I think it's where I made my biggest mistake.
    I think Peter calls it going mental
    I would block then lay the puckers back a bit.
    Then block and lay the tucks back a bit.
    Then block some more and lay the tucks back a bit.
    After some time, well a long time. I began to notice I wasn't getting anymore shape and the flat area was going hollow and giving me fits.
    Somewhere in my mind I am thinking it is just a sheet of metal and I have this really great (Handbuilt) blocking hammer.
    I will beat you to submission, I will form you to my will. I am man you are just cold rolled 20 gauge
    I think it got to the point that when I would strike the panel it would raise that area but pull shape off of the surrounding area.
    So all I was doing was stretching the living shit out of the panel.

    I finally got it in my head that hey maybe I should do some shrinking.
    So because I had stretched the panel so much it took lots of shrinking. More then it would have if I had done thing correctly.
    I now have the panel more or less under control again.

    What I think I learned from this is not only can you shrink to soon, you can also wait to long.
    Amazing how important timing of ones actions are when trying to create a panel
    Last edited by Blue62; 04-05-21, 04:39 AM.
    David Bradbury

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Blue62 View Post
      I thought I would give a bit of an update on where I am at with the Healey guard.
      Mistakes I made and what I think I learned.
      In Peter's first video on the Healey guard he mentions and shows that the puckers forming and the rear end of the guard should be laid back a bit.
      Not to tuck or shrink them in to early or it would cause the edge to turn up to fast and create the wrong shape.
      I got what he was saying, it made perfect sense to me.
      So that's what I did.

      So I got carried away and I think it's where I made my biggest mistake.
      I think Peter calls it going mental
      I would block then lay the puckers back a bit.
      Then block and lay the tucks back a bit.
      Then block some more and lay the tucks back a bit.
      After some time, well a long time. I began to notice I wasn't getting anymore shape and the flat area was going hollow and giving me fits.
      Somewhere in my mind I am thinking it is just a sheet of metal and I have this really great (Handbuilt) blocking hammer.
      I will beat you to submission, I will form you to my will. I am man you are just cold rolled 20 gauge
      I think it got to the point that when I would strike the panel it would raise that area but pull shape off of the surrounding area.
      So all I was doing was stretching the living shit out of the panel.

      I finally got it in my head that hey maybe I should do some shrinking.
      So because I had stretched the panel so much it took lots of shrinking. More then it would have if I had done thing correctly.
      I now have the panel more or less under control again.

      What I think I learned from this is not only can you shrink to soon, you can also wait to long.
      Amazing how important timing of ones actions are when trying to create a panel
      ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

      On the Healey guard the timing of each action is important simply because of it's shape been flatter on the center . It would be easier if the center had much more shape , but then it would be the wrong shape
      Peter
      PS David ..... I still think that doing the guard a few time will only improve your skills

      Comment


      • #63
        Peter,
        Thanks for commenting your feedback is very important to all of us as we struggle to learn.
        I looked at my previous attempts at making this Healey guard.
        I always tried it in three pieces. The front or dogleg piece and the main part in two pieces.
        After looking some of the parts over I can now see that they are really not that bad.
        Now that I have watched you on the video I see that I can save a few of the panels and use them.

        As for doing the guard a few times, as long as my body is able there is no reason to stop trying.
        Hopefully at some point I do acquire some skill

        Pictures of where I am at now. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010717.JPG
Views:	53
Size:	4.51 MB
ID:	6357
        I spent some time cleaning up the roughness with the blocking hammer. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010718.JPG
Views:	51
Size:	4.54 MB
ID:	6358
        I have done that two or three different times.
        Seems to help with seeing where I am at and takes the stress out of the panel.
        A little more work and then I think I can begin to wheel
        David Bradbury

        Comment


        • #64
          Peter,
          I have a question
          I hope it makes sense

          In the video on the Healey guard you show that you can adjust the position of the profile on the panel.
          If I understand correctly this is because the line where the flange is folded moves as the panel sets down on the buck or guard.
          A person could also adjust the position of the profile due to the lines moving from over stretching.

          My question is......... Does the location of the profiles ever move in the direction of line of sight
          It seems to me that the location could change due to stretching the panel am I correct or do I have it all wrong????

          David Bradbury

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Blue62 View Post
            Peter,
            I have a question
            I hope it makes sense

            In the video on the Healey guard you show that you can adjust the position of the profile on the panel.
            If I understand correctly this is because the line where the flange is folded moves as the panel sets down on the buck or guard.
            A person could also adjust the position of the profile due to the lines moving from over stretching.

            My question is......... Does the location of the profiles ever move in the direction of line of sight
            It seems to me that the location could change due to stretching the panel am I correct or do I have it all wrong????
            David the profiles will only change in direction of line of site only if you get the panel too full in the middle , or if you shrink too much , or too little on the back bone of the guard or the bottom edge , otherwise if all the profile fit well on the ''back bone '' and the back edge of the guard and the shrinking is done correctly you should not have any problems .

            If the line of site is too full ....this is what you need to do , FIRST check the back bone of the guard for .....Is it to round ? Or ............ is it too flat ? If the line of site is too flat .... check your shrinking on the ''back bone'' first , once that is OK then go ahead and wheel the center .

            If the guard is too full .... then stretch the edge of the ''back bone'' till it's OK ,then stretch the wheel arch side edge take the pressure off on the wheel and lift the panel over the top wheel and DRAG the shape out the wheel arch edge , THE WHEEL ARCH EDGE will go tight again , so if still too full ..... stretch the edge again and repeat the exercise .

            Now going back on your comment ...

            .[Quote ] After looking some of the parts over I can now see that they are really not that bad.

            Now that I have watched you on the video I see that I can save a few of the panels and use them...........

            THAT ONLY MEANS THAT YOU ARE LEARNING how to block and shape ,and all I can say is ......WELL DONE ! ...... Now is time to exercise your wheeling and which anvil to use at each operation and where it change the shape , my suggestion is keep watching the video's and practice a little

            Peter T.
            PS going by the two pics I think you are doing WELL !
            Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 06-05-21, 01:06 AM.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Blue62 View Post
              Peter,
              Thanks for commenting your feedback is very important to all of us as we struggle to learn.
              I looked at my previous attempts at making this Healey guard.
              I always tried it in three pieces. The front or dogleg piece and the main part in two pieces.
              After looking some of the parts over I can now see that they are really not that bad.
              Now that I have watched you on the video I see that I can save a few of the panels and use them.

              As for doing the guard a few times, as long as my body is able there is no reason to stop trying.
              Hopefully at some point I do acquire some skill

              Pictures of where I am at now. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010717.JPG
Views:	53
Size:	4.51 MB
ID:	6357
              I spent some time cleaning up the roughness with the blocking hammer. Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010718.JPG
Views:	51
Size:	4.54 MB
ID:	6358
              I have done that two or three different times.
              Seems to help with seeing where I am at and takes the stress out of the panel.
              A little more work and then I think I can begin to wheel
              This is a question for both David and Peter-

              How deep is the piece as shown in these two pics / how deep or long of a return is realistically feasible in this method? 5"-6"? I would like to do my aluminum Guzzi tank top in two halves pieces (instead of three- l&r sides and top) and have a area on top near gas cap that's slightly less than 12" across. The shape of the two halves is very similar to this rear wing.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by cliffrod View Post

                This is a question for both David and Peter-

                How deep is the piece as shown in these two pics / how deep or long of a return is realistically feasible in this method? 5"-6"? I would like to do my aluminum Guzzi tank top in two halves pieces (instead of three- l&r sides and top) and have a area on top near gas cap that's slightly less than 12" across. The shape of the two halves is very similar to this rear wing.
                Cliff,
                I turned the panel upside down and laid a straight edge side to side.
                where it turns down at the rear it is about 4.5" the deepest part in the middle is about 6''.
                The finished or original part is not that deep. I have a ton of extra material on it that will eventually be trimmed off.
                As for how deep or long of a return is feasible with this method, I will let Peter answer that question
                David Bradbury

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by cliffrod View Post

                  This is a question for both David and Peter-

                  How deep is the piece as shown in these two pics / how deep or long of a return is realistically feasible in this method? 5"-6"? I would like to do my aluminum Guzzi tank top in two halves pieces (instead of three- l&r sides and top) and have a area on top near gas cap that's slightly less than 12" across. The shape of the two halves is very similar to this rear wing.
                  Cliff the tank can be made in two pieces but I would suggest due to the work involved to make the tank in 3 pieces meaning....... top, LH side and RH side it would much quicker that way
                  Peter T.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Thanks, guys. I agree 3 pieces will be easier, especially after doing this latest seat hump in 3 pieces. I'm just thinking about ways to practice this exercise for an application that I need and general dimensions that are feasible, as soon as there's shop time. The same exercise may work well for the fairing lower halves for the same bike.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I am back with another update.
                      First here are two pictures of where I am at.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010720.JPG
Views:	24
Size:	4.51 MB
ID:	6378 Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010721.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	4.18 MB
ID:	6379

                      A few mistakes that I think I have made:
                      As I said in my previous post. I delayed the tuck shrinking to long so I over stretched the panel.
                      Then when I did the shrinking I over shrank in some areas.
                      So I have a bit of a bulge or high spot in the panel.
                      Also the panel is not as even or symmetrical as I feel it should be.

                      In the picture below you can see the edge has not been worked or defined yet.
                      I can also see where I over shrank. Also the back of the panel needs a little more shape.
                      My plan or my thought is:......... As I begin to develop this edge by bringing some of the metal
                      down and back it will draw some of the bulge out from the over shrinking.
                      Also trimming some of the excess material off and planishing the edge should stretch the edge and help draw the bulge out.
                      That's the plan anyway....




                      Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010722.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	4.57 MB
ID:	6380

                      I am some what limited in my shrinking methods.
                      It is either tuck shrinking or my Lancaster shrinker.
                      The Lancaster is pretty limited as it can only reach 1"- 1.5" into a panel.
                      So I use a tucking fork. So I over shrink then planish and stretch to get it how it needs to be.
                      I need lots more experience to know when I have shrunk enough so I don't have so much work to do.

                      I also made a wooden set tool. Lots of Maple in my area so I have a good supply of hardwood.
                      Tuck fork and wooden set.
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010723.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	4.05 MB
ID:	6381
                      David Bradbury

                      Comment

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