Working height?

[cliffrod]

i used Jim's P21 (?) at the RR last week, paid attention to demonstrations, etc. what I did not do was take a rough measurement of the working height of the tooling. In my mind, my new machine (sitting under a tent on a slope on the back lawn...) was about the same height. While it's safely on the crane being moved, I would like to add casters like Jim has on his and possibly some risers to raise the machine. Jim said he was told casters would not work, but he's had them on his Pullmax for a while and all seems to be fine.

50 1/2" working height on my English Wheel is very comfortable for me. Current original work height on this Gairu is approx 36". Should I go as high as my wheel (approx 14" taller with 5" or 6" casters plus appropriate riser blocks) or keep it a little lower for better metal handling? What approx working height do others here prefer on their jiggly machine?

[neilb]

cliff my jiggly working height is 95cm 37.4 in the old system and my wheel working height is 120cm just over 47 inches, I'm 6ft and my jiggly could do with coming up slightly as it's at my hip

[cliffrod]

cliff my jiggly working height is 95cm 37.4 in the old system and my wheel working height is 120cm just over 47 inches, I'm 6ft and my jiggly could do with coming up slightly as it's at my hip

Very cool- thanks, Neil.

[Chazza]

.... Should I go as high as my wheel (approx 14" taller with 5" or 6" casters plus appropriate riser blocks) or keep it a little lower for better metal handling? What approx working height do others here prefer on their jiggly machine?

Ergonomics can be tricky because the correct answer is what suits your body.

My trade was as a fitter and the first thing we did, was make parts by hand at a bench with a vice. The best height for a vice, is the distance from the point of your elbow to the floor, when standing up straight with your hand on your shoulder.

Using this rule-of-thumb I have designed most of my benches and portable tools, to be used at somewhere near this height. Where this is impossible, I use a stool to get closer to an appropriate height.

Variables that matter are;
1. What the task is.
2. How your body handles the position; for example bending at the waist is really bad for my back.
3. The mass of the load you are expecting to work with.

Cheers Charlie

[cliffrod]

Ergonomics can be tricky because the correct answer is what suits your body.

My trade was as a fitter and the first thing we did, was make parts by hand at a bench with a vice. The best height for a vice, is the distance from the point of your elbow to the floor, when standing up straight with your hand on your shoulder.

Using this rule-of-thumb I have designed most of my benches and portable tools, to be used at somewhere near this height. Where this is impossible, I use a stool to get closer to an appropriate height.

Variables that matter are;
1. What the task is.
2. How your body handles the position; for example bending at the waist is really bad for my back.
3. The mass of the load you are expecting to work with.

Cheers Charlie

Good advice, Charlie- thank you. The challenge with setting up this machine is zero experience with anything like this machine and future safe handling of the 3k+ lb machine (away from my big crane) if I want to change it. So I trying to get a good plan together so I can install appropriate casters/risers while my friend's knuckle boom truck is here to lift & move it. Easy to do that stuff when it's up in the air.

the obvious solution is to install a big crane in that building as well, but not doing that now..

[dennis]

Hi Cliffy
I checked my jiggly Machine today for you and it is 1050 mm it seems to be a good working height.
Regards Dennis

[cliffrod]

Thanks, Dennis.

I finally had time (and much cooler weather) yesterday to begin assembling the dolly for my jiggly machine. Two pieces of 6 foot long 12" wide channel (1/4" thick, sidewall is 3" tall) separated by 4 pieces of 3" channel were welded together. I will plane oak lumber to install in channel to support the machine and weld nests to receive 1/2" threaded rod to attach machine to dolly through existing holes in the machine feet. 8" kingpinless casters (approx 9 1/2" overall height). will be welded to the flat bottom so I can move it around easily.

Eventually, the 2 remaining pieces of 12" channel are planned to be cut into four equal pieces, ends beveled slightly and drilled so I bolt pieces of plate steel (probably 1/4") to each pair. These will assembled on each end around the wheels so once placed the machine can raised slightly to rest on solid legs instead of on the wheels.

the total height of this dolly will be about 13", raising my working height from 36" up to approx 49"-50" & very close to the 50 1/2" working height of my English Wheel.

[cliffrod]

I hate sandblasting..

but I've made good progress on the cart or dolly for my big jiggly machine in the last few days. Finished all welding yesterday including equally spaced holes with captured nuts on each end plate for attaching a handle. Spent this afternoon outside with the pressure pot & 4 bags of black beauty, the cheap steel looked a lot better. Some handy paint on the shelf got it looking better. One more coat tomorrow and I'll pull it back inside. Still need to do the wood pads to put in the channels for the machine to sit upon when it all bolts together. Overall measurements are 72" long X 30" wide by 9 1/2" tall as is.



Anxious to get my machine inside and set up. It's been a severe drought here so the last two months of being under a tent hasn't been detrimental to the machine. Time flies.

[norson]

I would be very careful with those casters. The tipping point is now 6? inches inboard of where it was and the center of gravity is now much higher. these things are famous for tipping over.

[cliffrod]

I would be very careful with those casters. The tipping point is now 6? inches inboard of where it was and the center of gravity is now much higher. these things are famous for tipping over.

Thanks for your concern. The cart is oversized, with the casters centered under the studs that fix the machine to cart via original holes in feet. That should keep all safe and ok while rolling. Other machines I've seen with wheels had the wheels attached in the same location.

I also have feet to install to raise machine off the casters once in place in the shop to extend the weight bearing footprint both longer and wider. Been thinking about that lift & the heavy nose, so will probably make a significant support to place under the motor end for that lift if & when I get that far.

[cliffrod]

After a long delay, my big jiggly machine is finally on the cart and in my building. It sure is big....

Cart works very well, is very stable and was an almost perfect fit. Working height is very close to the working height of my wheel. As shown, it's near my side door to allow clearance for smaller work. Rolling it straight forward approx 10' will place it directly in front of the larger roll-up door for better working clearance. Once my big red Galaxie is no longer in the shop, it will be even better.





Included are a couple of pics of the circle cutting attachment. The lower fixture has three bolts. With removal of the lower circle fixture pad, these would allow a straight edge guide to be attached there. No idea if this is original but looks to be and is practical.





This is a single speed machine with a 4 position depth/operation adjustment via the selector/shifter on the front of the machine. The plastic knob on the selector handle was broken shortly before I purchased the machine and will be replaced. Vertical adjustment of tooling is via handwheel underneath with lock via collet on handwheel shaft. Horizontal adjustment of tooling is via handwheel on nose with position lock in slot visible on left side. There's a handwheel on the back of the motor to allow manipulation of the tooling. Tooling shank is 26 mm, just barely over 1" and seller included a long piece of 1" stock that seems to fit fine.

For the record, this is a Gairu M18, made in Spain and the approx equivalent to a Pullmax P8 or P9, with 5/16" max shearing and 1/8" forming capacity ratings. Weight is aprox 3300 lbs. Hard to find much info on these machines in the USA. Unless you can speak & read Spanish and can connect with users & dealers in Spain, you're on your own.

The machine was under power when I purchased and operating fine. It isn't wired and operational yet. The parts to assemble a basic phase converter are here and waiting. Then my lathe, mill and Gairu will all be waiting for me.

[dennis]

Hi Cliffy
Good to see the Jiggly in the shed. Finally

[Moving molecules .]

Lovely set up Cliff, can we pop over to the Pullmax site .... because I would like some input on what PullMax to buy ??.

and when we buy one I will need some help with the tooling etc. 🤣

[cliffrod]

Lovely set up Cliff, can we pop over to the Pullmax site .... because I would like some input on what PullMax to buy ??.

and when we buy one I will need some help with the tooling etc. 🤣

The only credentials I have is being an owner of this machine. At the time of purchase, I had no lathe or mill and decided it would be the most simple machine to tool with basic equipment I already have. Material & info about building one were being accumulated because affordable machines are extremely scarce in my area. This machine was not in my plans but was one of those rare local opportunities that could not be missed. Really looking forward to working with it when other things in life slow down...

If you want great reading, Timothy Barton's series Metalshaping The Lost Sheet Metal Machines #3 covers the Pullmax brand and a wide variety of their models, application & tooling. The whole Barton Metalshaping series is great, probably without peer for what we do and pursue in metal. Fay Butler www.faybutler.com offers a book titled "Universal Sheet Metal Machine Handbook" that discusses how to make tooling for the Pullmax & equivalent machines. I have not ordered that book yet but it is regularly recommended as the best source of such information.

As I've tried to search & research the Gairu brand, I have seen there's many of these Gairu -5 and -8 machines available in Spain via industrial sellers. Some have had quite a lot of tooling included at prices lower than what a comparable well-known brand like Pullmax would command. No idea of the language, politics, legal, financial or transportation issues one would encounter doing such a transaction between your shop in post-Brexit GB and a seller in Spain, but wanted to make the suggestion about the possible option.

Others here can provide real experience advice about Pullmax and other brands.

[Moving molecules .]

👍 will love to check out that Barton Book Will do my research and try and find it.

i’ve opened up a new link on the Pullmax page.