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English Wheel for shrinking????

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  • English Wheel for shrinking????

    Click image for larger version  Name:	D9701F90-160B-4A25-946D-507FE8D9A35B.png Views:	0 Size:	272.1 KB ID:	4167

    We popped over to our friends Kudos concourse Restorations also a New Company... was also my 1st apprentice makes me feel old.

    Any how Graham got me to look at a Porsche 356 rhd Speedster Bonnet in for a complete colour change back to standard .

    And at first glance it didn’t look any different to any other bonnet in Bare metal until you got up close to it.... And it had the strangest finish all over the surface of the bonnet....?????

    it had a very very fine gridlike pattern over the whole bonnet like ??.

    was it DA marks .... no

    was it a shrinking Fipper..... Could be ...but it was neater and finer finish, and all over the whole bonnet.

    I really don’t know what it was after being in the trade for too many years , also Graham had never seen it...

    it got me thinking about The shrinking English Wheel Cass Nawrocki uses.... but his is like a Big Cog or Gear.

    was this German old Bonnet wheeled up was some kind of special shrinking English wheel.

    Will try to get permission for a photo.

    I wonder if you could stipple a old top wheel or cut a fine grid pattern in one? .

    would it tighten up a panel if you over wheeled it ....because most skilled English wheel uses would wheel gently around the edges to drop the low crown a little.

    you know what these clever Germans are like..........

    anyway something to think about.!!!
    Last edited by Moving molecules .; 09-08-2020, 08:43 PM.
    https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

  • #2
    Do you think this is an original front "Bonnet" from Porsche that had not been "restored" by someone years later ?

    I have never seen that before , I have a later T6 Bonnet out in the shop I can look at ,

    Was this on the outside only ?

    The Porsche factory was stamping parts from the early 1950s , they were not wheeling them ,

    Here is a video of the Porsche Factory in the early 1960s , maybe you can see something in the background I did not see...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbFu1r_erw0

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    • #3
      Could be stamping marks than....I did only look on the surface of the bonnet.

      this car had lots of good history with the paperwork pile 4 inches high..... And it has had 2 owners l believe.

      but do you like that idea for a shrinking top English wheel ...or bottom anvils??

      it could be useful.
      Last edited by Moving molecules .; 09-08-2020, 08:56 PM.
      https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

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      • #4
        i don't have any outer skin of my original bonnet as it's now part of a fridge freezer, i do have the rear half of the frame and that has marks in it. when peter was creating a die for his pullmax for the new frame, i saw marks in the original metal surface. after we made the new frame sections the marks left by the pullmax were exactly the same as the original part.

        skins would have been stamped out but who knows the surface quality of the stamping dies? tooling marks left on the dies maybe?
        thanks neil

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        • #5
          It’s very weird Neil it looks like they could have put the pattern on the bottom massive German stamping press....?.... This would aid to steady the panel maybe ?

          but really I cannot explain this very fine crosshatch pattern.
          https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

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          • #6
            or something like this , no idea if it works ,
            Woodward Fab Shrinking Hammer is perfect for your early stages of metal shaping! The spiral design shrinks metal upon impact. Click image for larger version  Name:	Metalworking Woodward_WFSHRINKH_Shrinking_Hammer.jpg Views:	0 Size:	15.0 KB ID:	4177
            Last edited by abarthdave; 09-09-2020, 03:42 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by abarthdave View Post
              or something like this , no idea if it works ,
              Woodward Fab Shrinking Hammer is perfect for your early stages of metal shaping! The spiral design shrinks metal upon impact. Click image for larger version Name:	Metalworking Woodward_WFSHRINKH_Shrinking_Hammer.jpg Views:	0 Size:	15.0 KB ID:	4177

              LOL no it doesn't. Kinda like the shrinking dolly. Seriously think about it for a moment. It is supposed to grab the metal and force it together. It's going to take a hell of a lot more force than that hammer can muster let alone be able to hold it together. Think about a hand held shrinker and the amount of force it takes to gather and shrink. All that hammer is going to do is mar your work.

              Like Peter says...another useless gadget.

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              • #8
                I figured it did not work , but the deluxe model was only $80 .......hahaha....

                but they have been for sale for decades.......

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post
                  It’s very weird Neil it looks like they could have put the pattern on the bottom massive German stamping press....?.... This would aid to steady the panel maybe ?

                  but really I cannot explain this very fine crosshatch pattern.
                  Taking a look at Cass's book, the shrinking he describes with the wheel consists of a wide roller on the bottom with the conventional top wheel. There are no markings. I don't understand how specifically he does it but I understand the general idea that he traps the high area and crushes it, which in turns "shrinks" it. No sign of marking on those wheels in the book. The gears he describes, he uses for stretching and they leave a lot of "upset" in the panel.

                  Cass's book is interesting but most of the stuff i there really doesn't apply to me, and I can hear Peter shaking his head silently😀 Lot's of gadgets in the book, a few I'd like to make/have but lacking hundred's of thousands of dollars of tooling and equipment, most of that book is not relevant to me. Like I said lots of gadgets but the difference between him and others is he clearly has an understanding of shaping whereas a lot of others who come up with gadgets don't.


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                  • #10
                    A Germans shrinking machine, very similar to the Eckold machine but with different teeth does exist , ( I have use them here in Australia in the past ) it might be possible that they have used that particular machine to work on that bonnet ?
                    Peter T.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chris_Hamilton View Post

                      Taking a look at Cass's book, the shrinking he describes with the wheel consists of a wide roller on the bottom with the conventional top wheel. There are no markings. I don't understand how specifically he does it but I understand the general idea that he traps the high area and crushes it, which in turns "shrinks" it. No sign of marking on those wheels in the book. The gears he describes, he uses for stretching and they leave a lot of "upset" in the panel.

                      Cass's book is interesting but most of the stuff i there really doesn't apply to me, and I can hear Peter shaking his head silently😀 Lot's of gadgets in the book, a few I'd like to make/have but lacking hundred's of thousands of dollars of tooling and equipment, most of that book is not relevant to me. Like I said lots of gadgets but the difference between him and others is he clearly has an understanding of shaping whereas a lot of others who come up with gadgets don't.

                      All I can say is this... WHY ON EARTH.. would one want to use two gears to stretch a panel when it can easily be stretch on a normal wheel without the ugly marks that would take forever to get rid of ???

                      And second...... WHY WOULD ONE use a piece of file attached or welded to some kind of gadget , then put it on the wheel and twist (claiming that it shrinks ) when all it's needed is to stretch the outer edge and let the shape out, ..... again without any marks.....by the time the marks are out from the panel you probably find that one is back where one started with the panel been too full ..........I must be old fashion !!! .

                      And one more for the road... ( while we are on the subject ) why use a wheel upside down in order to wheel a large panel pushing it upwards, when gravity will take over and ended up with too much shape on the bottom of the panel and nothing at the top ????

                      I could go on BUT....... I probably get shot Of coarse .....no criticism intended....... just common sense!!!
                      Peter T.

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                      • #12
                        Watch out Gents he,s seen Cass,s video,s .......all l can say is DUCK....

                        Cass is one my Gent self taught.

                        back to more serious note Pete can you comment on my new post on Bucks.
                        Last edited by Moving molecules .; 09-11-2020, 12:43 PM.
                        https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

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