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My response to a hand fabricated wheeling machine on another site.

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  • MP&C
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Like many hobbyists I have a home made wheel and had my upper wheel and anvils machined locally. I have less than 1 thou runout on the upper and am unable to detect any movement in the frame at the low pressures I work at. All up cost $1000. Does it produce good results? No, but I suspect the true cause may be operator inexperience. I am interested in any opinions on what is acceptable runout and if the poor quality of anvils is the bigger problem with cheap wheels rather than the flexibility of the frame. The guy in the link has 10 thou runout but I have heard of 50 thou in some. But David Gardiner tested a Horror Freight wheel and seemed ok with it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_dgC5DuLw
    That is not David Gardiner on the video. Yes, he has a HF wheel, but he also has a Frost and an Edwards. With the other two to choose from, I'd venture he doesn't use the HF in making the SS100 wings. I did see where he used the HF in forming the radius for the corner of a petrol tank as the HF anvil matched the radius needed, which suggests he had a rubber tire or similar on the upper wheel. Rubber tires used for forming a radius don't require as much precision in their mating anvil like you would want with steel wheels in forming a compound shape.
    Last edited by MP&C; 11-10-2019, 06:14 AM.

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  • cliffrod
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter Tommasini View Post

    Hi Cliff ..are you after a pear shape wooden mallet ? If you are.... let me know we have new ones in stock
    Thanks, Peter. I have 1-2 heads already cut but not hung plus blanks to turn on my wod lathe to make some more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter Tommasini
    replied
    Originally posted by cliffrod View Post
    Thanks, guys. I'm anxious to spend more time to learn proper use of my wheel. Pretty sure the tracking lines I'm often producing are indicative of too much pressure. The flex concerns related to fabricated frames that I have are as much related to my planishing frame build as any English wheel. I'm not wanting to assume they are equivalent.

    I feel pretty comfortable using Peter's blocking hammer. I like the mass. I don't have a pear shaped hammer yet, but I do have a pair of these nylon stone carving mallets https://tiranti.co.uk/product-catego...nylon-mallets/ that I keep thinking might be good for developing the appropriate shape. After more input about developing more open lower crown work entirely with the wheel, maybe not so much.
    Hi Cliff ..are you after a pear shape wooden mallet ? If you are.... let me know we have new ones in stock

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    Thanks, guys. I'm anxious to spend more time to learn proper use of my wheel. Pretty sure the tracking lines I'm often producing are indicative of too much pressure. The flex concerns related to fabricated frames that I have are as much related to my planishing frame build as any English wheel. I'm not wanting to assume they are equivalent.

    I feel pretty comfortable using Peter's blocking hammer. I like the mass. I don't have a pear shaped hammer yet, but I do have a pair of these nylon stone carving mallets https://tiranti.co.uk/product-catego...nylon-mallets/ that I keep thinking might be good for developing the appropriate shape. After more input about developing more open lower crown work entirely with the wheel, maybe not so much.

    Leave a comment:


  • RockHillWill
    replied
    "little pressure and technique rather than stiff frame and pressure (I listen to what he says)." says it all for me! When Peter showed me this approach at Oblong, Illinois a few years ago, the light went on for me.

    For Cliff: At my level of experience, using the go cart tire in my fabricated frame works out quite well. When using the go cart tire, it has been my experience that the panel that I am working on is smooth to begin with and I am just trying to change the arrangement, and the air pressure will maintain the same pressure.


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  • neilb
    replied
    using the blocking method with a pear shaped hammer I spoke about, walnuts on the wheel are basically all but gone, and the remains smooth out very quick

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  • neilb
    replied
    I do like Peter's wheel and his big cast wheel, I don't use them for my stuff, (peter has demonstrated to me the correct method with panels I've taken up) I use my crappy wheel but the results are based on a Joe Andrew's upper wheel and some trued up lowers. slightly altered frame and altered cradle, it's more down to technique than frame quality. little pressure and technique rather than stiff frame and pressure (I listen to what he says). there is a sweet spot in the adjustment range on my frame, it's just after touching and a 1/4 turn, everything happens in that range. over that is too much pressure, under that is only for washover and straightening a reverse.

    money permitting I would get one of Peter's wheels today

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    Since I have no experience using a fabricated frame English wheel, I have other questions.

    If a fabricated frame tends to be too flexible for effective panel shaping when compared to a well-designed cast iron frame, what is or are effective ways to use a fabricated frame? Basic smoothing of walnuts? How does flex impact using something like a go cart tire or soft upper wheel? Is flex less of an issue because less pressure is being employed?

    I know Neil is going back and forth between his fabricated frame and Cast frame versions at Peter's shop & Will is familiar with both in his shop.

    Leave a comment:


  • RockHillWill
    replied
    Regarding the concern over lower anvil run out. I have a thought or two, as I have looked into this in the past when considering removing the ball bearing, most commonly found in the current design of lower anvils and replacing them with ROLLER bearings that will not only increase the load capacity but lengthen the replacement intervals. The minimal clearance needed to use push in axles vs press fit axles and the manufacturers tolerance that can be accomplished with a total of .0005" to perhaps.001". It is my opinion that WHATEVER tolerance build up in the rotating parts is, it is of little concern because the run out will always accumulate at the bottom edge of the axle due to the load of the work piece. It is my thinking that what is of REAL importance is the run out between the bearing bore and the anvils outside diameter.
    Last edited by RockHillWill; 10-11-2019, 11:55 AM.

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  • Chazza
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilT2 View Post
    ... But David Gardiner tested a Horror Freight wheel and seemed ok with it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_dgC5DuLw
    Definitely not David Gardiner.

    The wheel is a disgrace and is not fit for purpose; reminds me of my HAFCO drill press, which was supplied with a table with a 0.25mm curve in it!

    Buy the best you can and if you can't, inspect every new machine very closely before you buy it,

    Cheers Charlie

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  • Chris_Hamilton
    replied
    Originally posted by ekdave View Post

    is that david gardiner ?
    No it's not.

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  • ekdave
    replied
    ah we would all love one of peters wheels , i have a hare and forbes unit ,, 1 thing i notcied was the top wheel didnt run true , too them to local machine shop it have it sorted he saud it wouldnt turn down due to incosistant hard spot in the metal , he managed to get it a little better by putting it on his grinding machine but the bottom line is it move metal but no where near the standard of peters big wheel in his shop the macphereson , havent used his new ones as of yet

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  • ekdave
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilT2 View Post
    Like many hobbyists I have a home made wheel and had my upper wheel and anvils machined locally. I have less than 1 thou runout on the upper and am unable to detect any movement in the frame at the low pressures I work at. All up cost $1000. Does it produce good results? No, but I suspect the true cause may be operator inexperience. I am interested in any opinions on what is acceptable runout and if the poor quality of anvils is the bigger problem with cheap wheels rather than the flexibility of the frame. The guy in the link has 10 thou runout but I have heard of 50 thou in some. But David Gardiner tested a Horror Freight wheel and seemed ok with it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_dgC5DuLw
    is that david gardiner ?

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    It was recommended to me by a full time expert that I respect that I can achieve more accurate performance by converting the slip in-axles of my lower anvils (Hoosier Profiles) to press-in axles, then truing the anvils for runout if needed. I haven't done this but it makes sense to eliminate any possible vertical and lateral movement.

    Leave a comment:


  • neilb
    replied
    well as the saying goes, if you dont like melbourne weather just wait 10 minutes lol

    Leave a comment:

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