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**Kiwi john** · 08-09-19, 03:03 PM

How they made a dollar profit I’ll never know ! Great to see the English wheels in action. I presume this would have been late 80s ?

**Chazza** · 09-09-19, 12:19 AM

I knew they made the engines by hand, but never realised that the whole car was hand-built!

I agree with John – how the hell did they stay in business for so long?

**Peter Tommasini** · 09-09-19, 02:34 AM

You would be surprised how quick they where making those panels, one of my teachers that worked there in the 60's said that he was making 16/20 front guard returns for the DB4 in one day
that is good going
Peter T.

**neilb** · 09-09-19, 01:56 PM

knowing where and how much to wheel is the key to production. i don't think they would do that amount of work, working out of arrangement with an FSP lol

**joeswamp** · 09-09-19, 02:36 PM

I think it's also a matter of practice -- as you do the same piece again and again, you probably pick up big efficiencies all over the place. I recall Geoff Moss commenting in a youtube video that a certain panel would take you two days the first time you did it, but after a while you were turning out two in a morning. The guy Peter refers to sounds almost superhuman though.

**Peter Tommasini** · 09-09-19, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by joeswamp View Post

I think it's also a matter of practice -- as you do the same piece again and again, you probably pick up big efficiencies all over the place. I recall Geoff Moss commenting in a youtube video that a certain panel would take you two days the first time you did it, but after a while you were turning out two in a morning. The guy Peter refers to sounds almost superhuman though.

Joe ....Yes it sounds almost incredible , but that what he told me ..keep in mind that they where doing these panel day in and day out for 3/4 Month ,then they would go and do some other panels for another 3/4 month ...then back on the returns

. Also you need to remember that they did have bucks for those panel, and that would have taken some time off in making them
Peter T.

**Chazza** · 10-09-19, 12:10 AM

I told a mate at work about the film yesterday; he said when he was a young panel-beater in the UK, an Aston was brought in with panel damage and they had to take a series of photographs, post them to the factory and hurry up and wait, while the new panels were made.

Love the posts Peter!

Cheers Charlie

**cliffrod** · 10-09-19, 03:11 AM

When all you do all day long is the essentially the same thing, you can become very efficient at it. I would expect making panels like these is not much different than doing comparable popular jobs in studio during my apprenticeship. Beyond small variations in dimensions, there is little to think about because you already "know" how to do every bit of it. You lean into it and get it done. The only challenge is to do it better and faster every time, just to prove it. Those jobs would take half the time to cut than a similar sized job with less typical detail that you have to figure out.

There's 6 bas relief plaster models of the most popular Catholic icons that are THE standards. Of those 6, the Blessed Mother and Sacred Heart dominate. You do them over & over... It becomes brainless work to cut them, but nearly all of that quick & easy $$ "bread & butter" work is gone now to crappy import work. Things have changed. I cannot imagine making panels is any different. Once you've made enough of the same item, making another one to match happens pretty quick. I doubt Peter spends much time wringing his hands at the prospect of doing another Monaro quarter panel....

Working 40 hrs/wk for years develops a technical ability and memory that's basically impossible to acquire any other way. Sure would like to have a few years doing panel work on a full time schedule to get good at it, but can't just pack our bags and hit the road now like we used to. My wife says we've got too much shi- to move now...

**Kiwi john** · 11-09-19, 01:11 PM

I remember at our first meeting having Andrew ( very very good metalshaping guy ) knockout a fj Holden ( Aussie thing ) lower quarter from a paper pattern he bought with him. He had it done in no time and when we asked him how he knew it was the desired shape he quietly explained that with enough practice your hands are able to tell your mind what feels right Quite incredible to think that we are able to operate that way. Cheers jl

**cliffrod** · 11-09-19, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Kiwi john View Post

I remember at our first meeting having Andrew ( very very good metalshaping guy ) knockout a fj Holden ( Aussie thing ) lower quarter from a paper pattern he bought with him. He had it done in no time and when we asked him how he knew it was the desired shape he quietly explained that with enough practice your hands are able to tell your mind what feels right Quite incredible to think that we are able to operate that way. Cheers jl

I've always called that ability/capacity my second mind. When you're fluent, you know and do without the same obvious thought processes. It only comes from practice AND success. You just do. when it's right or wrong, you just know. It's the only way to explain things. When a Master or fluent expert tells you "I can't really explain it to you- when you can do it, you'll understand...", that's what I'm talking about. Being in your second mind (some might call it "being in the zone") a very liberating place to be, because the world goes away. Super focus, super clarity, time changes and you get to be there while the magic happens.

That's what's special about working amd communicating among legitimate peers in a craft. You can communicate with others who have developed their second mind, which moves the communication and subsequent accomishments to another level.

Very cool stuff.

**Kiwi john** · 21-10-19, 08:27 AM

I'm positive his name was Adam. !!!!! Yep, Adam from Tassie. Thats the guy Dave !!

**Moving molecules .** · 15-03-20, 05:36 PM

Hi Gents, don’t get me wrong I adore Aston Martins , Ferrari, But like all the early cars . Symmetry had a lot to be desired ....
when we loaded Aston Martin DB 2/4 mklll drophead onto a modern global Jig ...... boy was it all over the place !!!
Because the bulkhead in the car was aligned poorly on the nearside that had a knock on affect on the whole nearside ....Being shorter in length then the offside ....
I found three gas welded bodge ups in total ...... and because of the knock on affect the N/S door was also shorter near the B.Post side.
I always felt as though you had a master craftsman on one side and an apprentice (or journeyman ) on the N/S.
And early Ferrari,s are worse .
Aston Martin have always struggled in the early days and the DB2/4 mklll was rushed into production so it shared all the bodywork from the DB 2/4 mkll , But what the MK lll did get..... is the famous Aston Martin Grill .
So for me the Aston Martin Mklll was the car that made Aston Martin what they are today .

**cliffrod** · 15-03-20, 07:57 PM

Few duplicate shapes conceived and made by entirely hand (whether duplicate or mirror-image) are accurately identical. One is always better and one is always worse. It's also much different to be charged to make an object for prompt sale vs being asked to accurately restore or replicate that object at a later time.

one of the things changing in the current Metalshaping world (for better or worse, in terms of authenticity) is the ease of which accuracy can be applied to,the task at hand. Take a scan of one side of an old existing shape & apply to both sides. Develop a shape in CAD, fully corrected and use it to produce a CNC waterjet or similarly produced buck. The finished product isn't the same as what was created 100% by hand alone, which will have variations based upon the skills and expertise of those hands. Skilled eyes see variations, but only to a point. Such variations make a viewer perceive objects different even if that perception is at a subconscious level. A shape perfectly duplicated or with perfectly even symmetry will look more artificial than organic.

Being built down to a cost (typical production) instead of up to a standard (restoration) matters. Perfecting a shape must be justified by the parameters of the task, including compensation & profit. In hindsight, many things are easy to improve.

**Moving molecules .** · 17-03-20, 11:23 PM

Will said that man.... when I started to remake the car you couldn’t tell it was that far out

, Aston Martin themselves have remade the DB4GT ... and realised after measuring several cars they were all different ...! So they just averaged to out through a computer program and then handmade it again .
when my car was built in 1958 at Feltham they were struggling for money and they needed the mklll quick , I was told at the time they had tractors on one side of the factory and on the other side a line of Aston Martins you wouldn’t get that nowadays .🤣🤣.
But you’re right you know the car now looks too perfect and the paint to plasticky all the spot welds were perfect... evenly spaced out with a compass ....
is this perfection I don’t know ...I loved the old car....

I then left prestige paint works .

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