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Is a panel ever a simple shape?

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  • Is a panel ever a simple shape?

    Is a panel ever a simple shape?

    While watching peter's videos and having a play I have realized I don't know what I am aiming for. Peter's examples of door skins etc all involve a complex shape even when at first glance they appear simple. I'll say it another way. The Holden door skin appears from a distance to only have curve from top to bottom (simple shape) but Peter demonstrates it does have subtle curve from front to back also (complex shape).

    I don't have access to a real 550 Spyder (surprise surprise). Prior to this I was going by photos and it seemed like the sills and doors were a simple shape. But now I am not convinced. I know having shape in both directions adds strength.

    What is the chances the 550 sill and doors had no shape front to back?
    Is that ever the case on a production car?
    I am now expecting I will need to include some subtle shape front to back. Any thoughts/suggestions?

    Regards Greg

  • #2
    Email Chris Runge.. he might help.😎
    https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post
      Email Chris Runge.. he might help.😎
      I'll read between the lines as:
      Chris would answer yes....Chris takes the simplistic approach and applies a simple shape when the correct way would be to add some shape. I have certainly seen his video where he takes a flat piece of aluminium and wraps it around the frame. As a result achieving exactly what I am describing as a simple shape.

      So we are implying that a panel should always have some shape in both directions.

      If a simple panel is the wrong approach then I'll add shape to mine. I am trying to understand the correct way not the easy way.
      I just didn't want to take that approach based on an assumption, if there were cases were the original car didn't have shape in both directions.

      I don't want to get harsh on Chris though. Even if he doesn't use the best methods he still achieves a beautiful shape in my opinion.

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      • #4
        other than the land rover defender lol all cars have some shape both ways. the skins on my 356 have shape both ways even though at the sill level they appear flat. you need to have lots of shape for when you curve over the door tops, some shape will be removed
        thanks neil

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        • #5
          If a shape is not complex, it is not as interesting. 2D work (like drawing on paper or cutting out a blank) is about making lines that define the result for the viewer. In part, 3D work is interpreted viewing the changing edges created by the shape as viewed from changing perspectives and with binocular vision. That's part of the challenge created by looking at a 2D representation of a 3D object, because the ability to interpret the object in the round (changing perspectives) with two eyes (binocular vision) has been greatly diminished or entirely eliminated.

          Perfectly simple shapes are typically seen as static, less vibrant or "alive". They are quickly interpreted by the viewer as easily defined and dismissed. They aren't as intrinsic so don't compel the viewer to continue looking in order to understand the object. Object shapes that initially appear to be simple but that actually have notable & often almost indistinguishable complexity are the most interesting. Your mind cannot readily interpret and comprehend the object, so you keep looking. Then you find another reason to keep looking.... That's why an apparently spartan composition like a Porsche 550 or 356 is such a successful and appealing design. Visual noise is used in this case to convey complexity to the viewer, partially confusing them so they keep looking to better understand the composition or object

          You can make whatever shape you would like & can make for a panel. But it will be more interesting and appealing if it is complex, not simple.

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          • #6
            Thanks guys. Your responses certainly give me the direction I needed.

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            • #7
              Even Land Rovers and the early Willys Jeep, have some shape on their apparently flat panels. This would help to stop drumming and strengthen the panel a little, to stop accidental denting when people lean on them, in the Land Rover's case.

              My S3 Land Rover has about 2mm gap at the end of the straight-edge, on the doors,

              Cheers Charlie

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              • #8
                Thanks, I am learning a lot.

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                • #9
                  is this the same for modern cars ?

                  if I take a straight edge on a modern car door will it have a high spot ?

                  just does not seem right........

                  PS: many things do not seem right , if you look at what it takes to make white paint the formula may have some blue or other color , you would think why not just pure white but with sunlight reflection and your eyes , pure white does no look right !

                  Interesting ideas , so of which I understand

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by galderdi View Post
                    Is a panel ever a simple shape?

                    While watching peter's videos and having a play I have realized I don't know what I am aiming for. Peter's examples of door skins etc all involve a complex shape even when at first glance they appear simple. I'll say it another way. The Holden door skin appears from a distance to only have curve from top to bottom (simple shape) but Peter demonstrates it does have subtle curve from front to back also (complex shape).

                    I don't have access to a real 550 Spyder (surprise surprise). Prior to this I was going by photos and it seemed like the sills and doors were a simple shape. But now I am not convinced. I know having shape in both directions adds strength.

                    What is the chances the 550 sill and doors had no shape front to back?
                    Is that ever the case on a production car?
                    I am now expecting I will need to include some subtle shape front to back. Any thoughts/suggestions?

                    Regards Greg
                    If you wheel the door skins with full radius anvils and hold them the right way on the wheel , you will get the right shape both ways , possibly a little more wheeling where the door skin go around on the top section of the door . The best way to get the right shape and flow along the side would be to just start the skins , ( do not finish them ) then go on to the front and rear guards , then check the whole flow of the car , providing that the side of the car does not look like two pillows side by side the shape of the car should be OK
                    Peter T.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chazza View Post
                      Even Land Rovers and the early Willys Jeep, have some shape on their apparently flat panels. This would help to stop drumming and strengthen the panel a little, to stop accidental denting when people lean on them, in the Land Rover's case.

                      My S3 Land Rover has about 2mm gap at the end of the straight-edge, on the doors,

                      Cheers Charlie
                      Even on "flat" things like washing machines and dishwasher doors there is always some shape in the panel, you can see it with a straightedge. There might be some aesthetic reasons but the primary reason is stiffness -- a perfectly flat panel is almost like a piece of stretched fabric, it has zero resistance to flexing and will resonate like crazy when subjected to vibration.

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