Shop equipment

[Devin0789]

Hello all, wanted to ask opinions on first time buying shop equipment as far as English wheel, planishing hammer, finger brake, shear. Etc. I am a hobbyist at best, I’ve taken one of peters classes when he was in Tennessee, and another gentleman’s class up near Chicago.
My question is are there any brands to lean towards for entry level/hobbyist equipment? I try not to step foot into harbor freight but maybe Woodward fab, Jet, bailiegh,? Any not top of the line brands that would be good for someone like myself to start out on? Thanks for any inputs.

[Moving molecules .]

For here in the U.K. I would think l would buy 2nd vintage equipment for homework....

but Peter would have taught you all you need is a Wooden stump and some assortments of good quality hammers.

l think l would make a very strong framed ( plus filled with sand ) Wheeling machine . Or Save up for Peter,s lovely Cast one / P hammer.😎

[neilb]

i would say by the best you can afford, i know that's a fairly obvious thing to say but if you have the money to buy a fabricated frame wheel and a box pan folder (finger brake) at the same time then i would suggest using the money to buy a better wheel. i have a fabricated frame wheel, it's ok....ish. with a little experience you can get some shapes out of it, but it's not as quick or as good as a cast frame.

good quality tools are always worth more if you had to sell them on at a later date

[cliffrod]

Devin, what I did had a lot to do with being broke/low budget. I tried to get tools & equipment I could actually sell later. I couldn't afford to buy the best at will, but I couldn't afford to buy/build gear that would then be virtually worthless to get rid of later. Learn with the basics until you understand what you really need. Then buy the best you can afford. The good deals on craigslist, FB MP and between friends disappear instantly- like in minutes, not hours. You'll save money in the long run. I've tried to develop my capacity to make at least some of the tooling I will need so I don't have to buy every little thing. seems like a smarter way to spend my money.

I bought one of Peter's English wheels. Very pleased. With the stand I built and one extra anvil from Hoosier beyond the standard set, I think I've got around $4200 total in it. Still cannot believe I spent that much, but a cast iron English Wheel had been a long-term goal. I don't want to sell it but know that if covid or ?? kills me, it's a bank account that my wife can easily sell for most or all of what I spent on it. Fabricating a wheel, anvils, etc can easily cost $2K if not more out of pocket. It seems easy to find them for sale around $2k and those don't sell fast & will probably only sell for much less. There's a Fournier Quick Shaper English Wheel for $3500 on madison (Wisconsin) that's been for sale for a while. It's not cast iron and that's at least $1K less than new.

Patience is a big asset. While saving materials to build a bead roller or small reciprocating machine, I found a good Pexto bead roller, a big Gairu reciprocating machine and a real CP planishing hammer to keep plus a second B2 Beverly to sell. All local via c/l and FB Marketplace at prices I could afford, within approx 1 calendar year. Not made in china dirt cheap but not crazy $$ Each is another bank account that should liquidate easily without losses when the time comes. Missed a real 36" brake for $175 a month ago on local c/l, but it looked like a finger brake missing all the fingers so not too bummed.

make sure people know what you're looking for. It's always surprising where some of this gear turns up for sale. Good luck.

[Devin0789]

Sounds good guys, thank you all for the reply’s!

[Peter Tommasini]

If it was me I will first buy a good English wheel Cast preferably ....but a good fab one would be OK.... having said that BE VERY CAREFUL ON WHAT YOU BUY! Test it for flexibility etc .............. Also try to buy a decent hand or foot operated shrinking machine

Then as time go by save some $ and buy a finger brake . and a Jeny machine (bead roller )
It's very easy and cheap to get a nice stump, blocking hammer , couple of sand bags ,flipper, and a nice and balanced body hammer.

Leave the pneumatic planishing hammer for the moment and get some hand skills up

So to sum all this up, with wooden stump . a blocking hammer, sand bags , and a body hammer and flipper (slapper ) and a decent English wheel you can do a lot of work

people that have done my classes in the US will confirm just that .
Later on you can also add,..small blocking hammers, stretching hammers, and other hand tools. for the first a few years do not rely on too many machine tools. As mention before....
.PRACTICE AND HONE YOUR HAND SKILLS FIRST !

Buying some good dvd's on Metalshaping would be a good idea as well

Peter T.

[Devin0789]

Thanks for your input Peter! What brands would you lean toward?

[Chris_Hamilton]

Here are some of the hand tools that Peter sells.


http://www.handbuilt.net.au/handtools.html (email him for prices, more reasonable than you think.)

The big blocking hammer and large sandbag are hard to find anywhere else. I have bought several items including the bag and hammer along with the dolly he uses in the DVD when making the quarter. Look through the pics to get an idea of some of the tools to have.

Also do yourself a favor and get the 10 DVD set of instructional videos he offers. Worth their weight in gold. I promise you that they are worth every penny.

http://www.handbuilt.net.au/dvds.html

Also David Gardiner's video is an excellent introduction to metalshaping and watching it prior to Peter's DVD's will help supplement and understand better what Peter is teaching.

https://www.classicmetalshaping.co.uk/dvd/

German companies Picard and Peddinghaus make high quality hammers and dollies. They have specialized hammers that no one (besides Peter) has. The little blocking hammers and others) Martin Tools in the US makes quality dollies and hammers though their hammers are more body repair hammers than actual metalshaping hammers.

HalderUSA is the Picard distributor in the US. Contact them by phone for any Picard item you want. They will order from the factory in Germany and deliver to you. Fair prices as well.

https://www.halderusa.com/

The Hammersource has a selection of Picard Hammers at good prices if you are in the USA.

https://hammersource.com/

Some other companies (google the names to find their sites)
Dagger Tools (lots of affordably priced metalshaping equipment, good quality as well for the most part)
TinmanTech (gas welding equipment, DVD's other specialized items)

[Jaymce]

Think about a mill and lathe first...Ok... Ok.. just hear me out.

With these two tools you can make anything you need. My bridgeport was -$1000 and my lathe I found for $1200. They are probably the tools I use the most on a weekly basis. Turning bushings, pins, dies, anvils for the reciprocating machine etc.

Also see what local auction houses are around you. Businesses are downsizing all the time. I'm usually pretty strapped for cash but there are good deals to be had if you are not in a hurry. My big Lennox style nibbler was sub 1k. I watched 4ft old finger brakes with the set back fingers go for -600 because timing was wrong for me. Had to pass on a free 8' brake because my shop is too small and I have too much packed in it. The stuff is out there.

[cliffrod]

Think about a mill and lathe first...Ok... Ok.. just hear me out.

With these two tools you can make anything you need. My bridgeport was -$1000 and my lathe I found for $1200. They are probably the tools I use the most on a weekly basis. Turning bushings, pins, dies, anvils for the reciprocating machine etc.

Also see what local auction houses are around you. Businesses are downsizing all the time. I'm usually pretty strapped for cash but there are good deals to be had if you are not in a hurry. My big Lennox style nibbler was sub 1k. I watched 4ft old finger brakes with the set back fingers go for -600 because timing was wrong for me. Had to pass on a free 8' brake because my shop is too small and I have too much packed in it. The stuff is out there.

A lathe and mill were my ultimate goal as well. I chased both for years while I collected the materials to build some machines with them. By the time I finally got both into my shop this summer during covid, I had already gotten my English wheel and Gairu/pullmax (which, as a reciprocating machine, is arguably the easiest & cheapest "real" machine to tool).

Meanwhile, my basic wood shop equipment was already here. With a cheap wood lathe and firewood or reclaimed crating/pallet lumber, I have made mallets, tool handles, hammerforms and most recently a full set of tooling for my arbor press. A band saw, sander and router make things go a lot faster- like making entire bucks and wooden dollies/forms to clamp in my vise- but aren't mandatory. Wood tooling will suffice for aluminum. Learn what wood works well and what's available in your area for free. During covid, I have been able to trade up on multiple woodworking machines for break even$. Deals still keep coming, but I'm out of room.

The cost to tool equipment is a serious priority to me, both for $$ and time budget. Sure is nice to be able to just make what I want when I need it for relatively cheap/free vs spending another $$$hundred and waiting a few days to see if that will resolve the job at hand.. That's how I set up my stone studio, so doing my metal shop the same way was a no-brainer. after making some tools & tooling, you'll quickly reach the buy-in break even point. Working to get my metal lathe & mill operational this winter.

I believe the critical thinking and accuracy required to make tools & tooling are excellent exercise. You will better understand the what & how of the method, as well as what tool produces or doesn't produce such shape. Those things may seem unnecessary, but they aren't. Your evaluation skills will improve, which will impact everything you make.