z cars

[Kiwi john]

Thanks Pugsy. I managed in a fashion to manhandle them across. Most duplicated as movies ( !!!!!!) and I had to go through and delete them individually Be good to see some photos of the rally car Matt. The 260 is so bad it would be tempting to replace every outer panel with aluminium and slot a RB turbo motor in just for the hell of it

[neilb]

not a bad idea!

[Moving molecules .]

Thanks Pugsy. I managed in a fashion to manhandle them across. Most duplicated as movies ( !!!!!!) and I had to go through and delete them individually Be good to see some photos of the rally car Matt. The 260 is so bad it would be tempting to replace every outer panel with aluminium and slot a RB turbo motor in just for the hell of it

No Props ... will post some pics up of the Rally car , it’s straight 6 block is sounding very sweet and strong, has Two big Carbs on it....
everyone who comes in the workshop loves the Shape.... and the sound if we start it.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Thanks Pugsy. I managed in a fashion to manhandle them across. Most duplicated as movies ( !!!!!!) and I had to go through and delete them individually Be good to see some photos of the rally car Matt. The 260 is so bad it would be tempting to replace every outer panel with aluminium and slot a RB turbo motor in just for the hell of it

John that is one gnarly looking Z from the outside!😲
What do the inner rockers, hinge pillars, and firewall look like? I have a 71 that looked pretty nice on the outside, real nice interior, but was just rotted away on the hinge pillars, the inner rockers and the dash/firewall area. Just too far gone to save. I've got two others that I'm working on now. They are both going to be nice cars when I'm finished. And I'm trying to make some roof skins (although not in one piece, maybe you could share how you plan to do that?) and try to sell a few here in the U.S. There really is almost nothing as far as sheetmetal goes so I hope to do a few more things for them as I get more experience. I'll post my progress soon in the roof skin thread I started.

[OldnEK]

Ive seen those Z cars where you open the doors the hinges have fallen off from the A pillars and you open the rear Tailgate the whole inner hinge panel is still down, mind you, the money they are bringing now makes them all worthy of rebuilding.
Is the 240 a much better car Johnny? as they are worth a bit of coin now and possibly more sort after than the 260.

[Kiwi john]

Yeah Reedy the stripped down one (240) is pretty good structually but some zealot tore it apart, deskinning the poor darling and then lots of trinkets and various glass items went walkabouts. They all seem to rust . Firewall, skirt under battery tray, inner & outer rockers, doglegs, rear slam panel, front rails, door pillars......... They are a fairly flimsy shell to start with and I wouldn't trust a shiney example unless it had photographic evidence of what was done !

Mmmm Chris. Gnarly would be pretty apt . I literally bought it for less than scrap value purely to chop up to help get her older sister back on the road but after spending time with her I have grown a little fond and tend to look beyond her skin condition. And her degenerative bone condition. And her creaky joints.

The door pillars dont look too bad but the rest is pretty dismal. I wont touch her until she has a cradle underneath from front and rear suspension mounts
You are right about sheetmetal. Outer rockers and hoods and doorskins are available but everyone seems to be after rear quarters and roof skins

My thoughts re the roof was to try it in 3 pieces pretty much as Peter has described. Left and right covering the cant rails and a centre low crown strip At least the roof has a pronounced radius each side running front to back so would be ideal for a seam weld. How would you attack it ?

My mates laugh at my "Z twins" but I used to be into VWs back in the late 80s. Chopped up my share of ovals. Stripped stuff that we thought wasn't worth saving. Times have changed and I am happy to tuck away the odd car that probably should be parted out. Getting old and senile

[Moving molecules .]

as requested Gents..... on it today..... my bath will be Rust tonight.....😂😂....will make all the Sills and complete New upgrade floor.

[Kiwi john]

Thanks Matt. You get to work on some good stuff ! They look pretty on the surface........ The L series 6 cylinders are fantastic engines and can produce good horsepower with a relatively flat torque curve.

Yesterday I attempted to make the Z RHS roof skin. Made a paper pattern, cut a blank, and blocked out the ridge. I managed to get the profiles ( they taper along the length ) pretty good then opened the tin to wheel it.

Being a bit simple, I only allowed 10 mm of extra material past the folded flange which attaches to the cant rail ( I was worried that too much material would make it hard to get the side curvature right ) So you guessed it. When it came time to put it back in shape after wheeling it I had no leverage to bend it. At that time I looked at what I had and discovered that my imagined middle of radius was about 10mm too high Mmmmmm Not good. I figured I had totalled the piece and proceeded to fold the return flange just for the hell of it ( I will post pics tomorrow )

Today I dropped in to Dr Toms..... A few choice Italian swear words and 15 minutes later the good Dr had the radius moved to match the profiles and stretched the horizontal area to remove the waviness. My return flange means that the finessing will be done with a slapper and bag. That'll learn me

I am deeply indebted to Peter. Its the subtle things that make the difference and we are incredibly lucky to have him. Thanks Pete

[Peter Tommasini]

Thanks Matt. You get to work on some good stuff ! They look pretty on the surface........ The L series 6 cylinders are fantastic engines and can produce good horsepower with a relatively flat torque curve.

Yesterday I attempted to make the Z RHS roof skin. Made a paper pattern, cut a blank, and blocked out the ridge. I managed to get the profiles ( they taper along the length ) pretty good then opened the tin to wheel it.

Being a bit simple, I only allowed 10 mm of extra material past the folded flange which attaches to the cant rail ( I was worried that too much material would make it hard to get the side curvature right ) So you guessed it. When it came time to put it back in shape after wheeling it I had no leverage to bend it. At that time I looked at what I had and discovered that my imagined middle of radius was about 10mm too high Mmmmmm Not good. I figured I had totalled the piece and proceeded to fold the return flange just for the hell of it ( I will post pics tomorrow )

Today I dropped in to Dr Toms..... A few choice Italian swear words and 15 minutes later the good Dr had the radius moved to match the profiles and stretched the horizontal area to remove the waviness. My return flange means that the finessing will be done with a slapper and bag. That'll learn me

I am deeply indebted to Peter. Its the subtle things that make the difference and we are incredibly lucky to have him. Thanks Pete

You are very Welcome !........ I will see you on Saturday
Peter T.

[Kiwi john]

A few photos....

[Kiwi john]

And a few more...

[Moving molecules .]

Pete will be glowing...top Work.

[Kiwi john]

Just felt like putting a pic of the Autumn sun setting..... I love the reflections on the hood / bonnet . reminds me of pdr work ! No other reason

[Kiwi john]

PS. Peter's advice was not to block the shape in. Creates too much work ( As he showed me on the ally piece I bought with me ) Just use the cant rail on the car to create the side curvature profile and wheel the shape in according to the gauge and profiles.) Guess I'll be making a few more with extra material below the folded flange .........

[Peter Tommasini]

PS. Peter's advice was not to block the shape in. Creates too much work ( As he showed me on the ally piece I bought with me ) Just use the cant rail on the car to create the side curvature profile and wheel the shape in according to the gauge and profiles.) Guess I'll be making a few more with extra material below the folded flange .........

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The given advice was for a novice not to get in to trouble with the blocking ,IT CAN BE BLOCKED ....BUT! you need do do it very softly and VERY EVEN all over and lengthen the top edge as well . Wile blocking the inner edge will start to curl over as well , so make sure to knock it back to about the position that it needs to be , this action will make the whole panel take shape around the curve of the roof ....... and use your profiles to tell you what needs to be done next
Peter T.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Very good stuff guys! Would love to see some advice on the front and rear pieces. Specifically the double fold. Down 90 degrees approximately, then back up 90 degrees approximately. I have been struggling a lot with those two pieces. 😡

Here is a pic to help illustrate.

I'm having a very hard time keeping the correct profile or relationship of all the bends when I try to turn this piece. The angle between the roof, the side and the bottom always changes when I turn the 2nd turn (bottom) back up. I can get it back but then I find that has caused the roof itself to go out of profile by going high in places and I can't correct that.Then I get frustrated and bin the piece.

I have been wheeling it some after I make the turns. Is that a no-no? I've only wheeled because when I turn it some of the shape goes away.

Should I put more shape in it initially before I turn the first bend?

How do you turn a flange on a crown panel and maintain control of it?

Sorry for all the questions.

[Peter Tommasini]

Very good stuff guys! Would love to see some advice on the front and rear pieces. Specifically the double fold. Down 90 degrees approximately, then back up 90 degrees approximately. I have been struggling a lot with those two pieces. 😡

Here is a pic to help illustrate.

I'm having a very hard time keeping the correct profile or relationship of all the bends when I try to turn this piece. The angle between the roof, the side and the bottom always changes when I turn the 2nd turn (bottom) back up. I can get it back but then I find that has caused the roof itself to go out of profile by going high in places and I can't correct that.Then I get frustrated and bin the piece.

I have been wheeling it some after I make the turns. Is that a no-no? I've only wheeled because when I turn it some of the shape goes away.

Should I put more shape in it initially before I turn the first bend?

How do you turn a flange on a crown panel and maintain control of it?

Sorry for all the questions.

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When you turn the first angle you need to go further in with the angle ( more angle that you need ) then turn the second angle which will make the first right , if things changes ,then you need to adjust the angles with a 2 wooden chaser with one holding the radius of the roof the other sending the angles where you want them , so put the round chaser on a wise get someone to help by holding the panel on to the first chaser and hit the flanges where they need to be . You would need to do some shrinking or stretching on the last flange to adjust the conture of the roof .....If you loose the shape on the crown of the roof , that means you never had enough shape in the first place .BUT REMEMBER BY SHRINKING YOU WILL LOOSE SAME SHAPE ON THE RADIUS , BY STRETCHING YOU WILL GAIN SHAPE .
I think that Kiwi John is posting some pics for you on how we did his Kent rails to help you out
Peter T.