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1980 bmw e12 rust work

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  • 1980 bmw e12 rust work

    Im trying to get my classic 1980 BMW sedan reregistered. a Problem it has is rust in the front fender and sill which the inspector said is not allowed.

    One of the issues with this car - and all my others actually - is rust about the front fenders, at the sill level - this is where road muck gets caught against the inner wheel well liner, creating a nice spot for this muck to accumulate, and with constant wetting eventually it causes rust from the inside out to the fender.

    If you are smart enough to catch it + clean out the inner liner, then you can prevent the sill corner from rusting too.

    Well I took the fender off today ( Right side)

    and lucky me the sill corner has signs of rust

    so I wire brushed, grinded and sanded the surface to see how bad it was. - its got holes

    I also attacked the fender with the abrasives to see how bad it is.

    I suppose its not too bad, maybe a bit of metal patching is all it needs

    nope - back side is very rusty and part of the support fame has completely gone

    I have another fender thats got a reasonable support pieces, so I'l take a template off to make a duplicate.

    Im wondering , to a make a new section for the sill, if a flexible shape pattern maybe the way to go?

    I re watched Wray Shelins you tube video on it , and had a go

    Metal Fabrication: How to make a Flexible Shape Pattern and Gauges by Wray Schelin's ProShaper Workshop


  • #2
    To make the flexible shape pattern, I fixed 2 layers of makskign tape, @ 90 degrees to each other, then peeled it off. I dont have any fibreglass tape, so will see how the masking tape goes.

    The sill.

    TEh flexible shape pattern once it was peeled off , I added some notes and lines to it to help identify where it went and what was what.

    I have a piece a of metal from a rear quarter panel that I have kept which I can use - here is the shape pattern over the piece showing how much shape needs to be created.

    I cleaned it up and trimmed it to size

    I added some notes to the face.

    after a bit of hammering on a my hollow block I started to get some shape

    I also trimmed the piece a bit more to fit the shape pattern, bit more banging, on both log and my steel anvil ( cut off 150 UB) and was starting to get pretty close.
    Here it is test fitted - Im finding it difficult to get a really tight fit and get the bend sharper.

    view form underside - here can see quite a gap still - wher there is too much shape

    My shape pattern is loosing a bits of its firmness - I think the fibreglass tape layer would have helped quite a bit for it to keep its integrity. I also think I ought to have started with the major bend first- it may have resulted in a tighter bend.


    • #3
      Im not to sure if my bend it sharp enough, so I made a card template to check.

      as can see, still needs at bit of shape = probably stretching to match. I was surprised actually that I got it this close!


      • #4
        Click image for larger version  Name:	BB4FAAD7-6A04-44BF-9C8B-857C61F0E9F6.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	2.14 MB ID:	4411 If you see a patch of rust you normally have Extend the area by two or sometimes 3 , We are currently restoring a M5 E28 which is growing day by day.

        if you are in Perth how close are you to Peters Place ?.

        If you need any general advice about your car .... speak to Barney at Classic heroes here in the U.K..

        It’s also nice to see New faces on this Forum, we are here to help.
        Last edited by Moving molecules .; 21-10-20, 08:11 AM.


        • #5
          Peter as in Peter Tommasini who is in melbourne - 3465 kms away - a 37 hr drive according to google maps


          • #6
            I remembered I had a piece that I had cut out of another car a few years ago- so I went and got it - I could use this as a template/formwork.!


            • #7
              Originally posted by gdorn View Post
              Peter as in Peter Tommasini who is in melbourne - 3465 kms away - a 37 hr drive according to google maps

              Bloody Hell , I didn’t realise how big Australia was....


              • neilb
                neilb commented
                Editing a comment
                lol when we visited my family back in the uk in 2016 I had watched 2 films on the plane an we were still in australia just above perth, it's a huge country!

            • #8
              You are going well, but you will do better with a paper pattern and forget about the FSP, as they don't work.

              I use a centre punch to lightly tap the rusty panel, to find where the good metal is, make sure that you check all of the sill before going much further as it may save you some time.

              Nice to have you on the forum,

              Cheers Charlie


              • #9
                Originally posted by Chazza View Post
                You are going well, but you will do better with a paper pattern and forget about the FSP, as they don't work.

                Cheers Charlie
                Sorry, this is actually not true.
                For the piece being made here, they would work fine.
                I believe the beef on FSP's are that they take so long to make, waste materials and definitely do not work on low crown panels.

                I can show a case where the FSP worked fantastically. I took a piece of metal and the pattern to a friend's place. I knocked out the panel, brought it home, placed it on the car and it fit like a glove.

                I did not even have a profile gauge with me for either direction. This is the first panel I made. Every one after that was a challenge and got progressively worse. Beginner's luck is real.


                • #10
                  I will not make a comment on the FSP ........ but I would like you to prove to your self how useful they are, so.... grab a pair of old shoes, place them together close to each other, ..then put some paper around them and in to them ...I guaranteed that the FSP you made for your job has shown on pic N 8 will fit that too
                  Peter T.

                  PS I watched the video on making the FSP, and all I can say is that the time the the FSP pattern of that guard is finished and off the panel, I would have the two blanks cut out , all profiles done ,and all of the main shape almost ruffed out
                  Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 22-10-20, 04:59 PM.


                  • #11
                    Not the FSP surface panel again....😐

                    at 4 o’clock this afternoon I had 1 hour to teach you Toby (19) how to make a Convex Half inch flange on a Flat panel and to keep the panel Flat.....Not like a banana

                    Did I Reach for the special tape ?? , No .....because this won’t teach Toby anything about what’s going on with metal.

                    He was told to use paper Which quickly Showed him what he needed to do....

                    and next I heard a voice..... Matt I need to stretch it..... Right answer.

                    A flexible surface pattern, yes obviously conforms to the surface that’s why it’s called a surface pattern....But it does not teach you how to shape the panel........ if you are a beginner.

                    It assumes you have some prior knowledge of Metal shaping to achieve A kind of reasonable panel !!!!!.

                    i’m not going to send Toby to somebody to waste a day sticking tape onto a panel..... As a company trying to make money and to pay wages this is a bad idea. Craftsman like Peter T .... Teach people a fast and accurate way ...did I say accurate ..... Way to make a panel .
                    He’s been doing that for so many years, he has a wardrobe full of T-shirts.....🤣

                    Peter T
                    Geoff Moss
                    David Gardner
                    Jessie Morris
                    Pete Southern

                    and little old me.... i’m slowly getting there...🤣

                    The best of the best use The tried and tested way.

                    if you wanted to capture the shape of a small item with detail ..... you could cover the part in vaseline as a releasing agent then use fibreglass....
                    it certainly quicker.👍

                    but what does it achieve not a lot....

                    many professionals can make small parts like this with skill , Paper template and human Eye.
                    Last edited by Moving molecules .; 22-10-20, 09:47 PM.


                    • #12
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	5E215C2B-8459-4EFD-89B0-53E535371950.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	2.47 MB ID:	4422 Click image for larger version  Name:	003A54FB-E9B7-4FA3-A5E5-8438B65B1551.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.78 MB ID:	4421


                      • #13
                        Believe you and me if I thought the flexible shape pattern is worthy one day I will use it....
                        but as away of dragging our time in the Workshop this is something we cannot afford...

                        hope this is all came across okay.

                        To me all this is just common sense.

                        sorry to be an arse.


                        Right back to that Rare E12 BMW😉

                        this or make you cry ... back in 1990 as a young lad I was told to bin a small skip full of old BMW parts and I can remember throwing away lots of old kidney grills , lamp bezels etc etc....
                        if we only knew.....🤔
                        Last edited by Moving molecules .; 23-10-20, 08:15 AM.


                        • #14
                          I made a short video of the fit so far - still not quite right, its needs some bending and shrinking somewhere!



                          • #15
                            As I said at the start of this thread, typical issues on my E12's is rusty lower fenders adjacent to the sill, where road muck gathers from the wheels.

                            so its time to attend to this fender.

                            The back of the fender has a support rib, which is also rusty and thus needs replacing

                            BTW I have David Gardiners DVD which has been my main guide so far.

                            A photo of the fender and the piece I have made adjacent to the panel

                            not to bad for a novice.

                            patch piece adjacent to the pattern (left side)

                            I've allowed the required edge lip at the sides - one side gets folded completely over to meet and capture the support rib , the other sides bends 90 degrees to form the wheel well arch

                            now onto the support rib

                            Here is a photo of the back side showing the fender support rib and how it is capture by the folded over panel, can see the 90 degree bend on the far side creating the wheel well arch . This is a good rib which I need to mirror replicate for the other fender

                            Here is the basic pattern made in card . Insitu its a machine bent rib that has 90 degree bend and also curves on the upper part of the fender.

                            and laid onto a sheet of colorbond ( roof sheeting material approx 0.48 thick) as a trail run.

                            Can this be made in 1 piece ?

                            I've tried to make a test piece, but have had to cut along the fold line due to all the extra shrinking thats required otherwise

                            I have also tried another way, which was to make the straight fold and cut the curved fold , this one is not a big of extent as the other piece, just enough to cover the rusted part of the rib. It probably needs to be a bit longer - so that it joins at good steel.

                            Here it is clamped in position in front

                            and behind.

                            I think I like this one better - but if I could get away without a cut....!

                            I got referred to this video

                            So following this technique, I made up a follower piece from 5mm plate, then clamped the piece to a vice, and bent over the straight section approx 25 degrees, then hammered over the curved section sorta the same with my wood mallet. (I think this is zincanneal sheet - I got this from a local coachbuilder.)

                            I was quite please with this initial bending.

                            Maybe it was my vise, but the more I then tried to bend the materials, the more the bend started to move off line. I think the follower moved.
                            Also I noticed that the apex of the fold tended to flatten out which further moved the follower.

                            Wacking of the the 'tuck' did nothing, but cause my good straight bend to become distorted and create movement else where ( along bend line)

                            so Im a bit stuck with what to do next.
                            Last edited by gdorn; 29-10-20, 03:57 AM.