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  • Porsche 964

    Hi Gents, have a Porsche 964 in next week for a sunroof delete.... I will be honest now this will be my biggest panel to date and I am a little apprehensive .

    old sunroof will be cut out.

    and me and my work colleague need to Wheel up a new one and TIG welded in.

    two months ago we helped the restore the lower half on a Ferrari 275GTS rhd valued at 2.5 million.

    Watch this space to see if we can pull it off.

    any tips gratefully gratefully received.

    many Thanks Matt.

  • #2

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    • #3
      So first will decide how much Roof Panel to replace ?

      1.Then will use paper to make my blank
      2. cut my blank.
      3.with my Colleague wheel up the panel at lowish pressure to get some even shape and tension in to the panel.
      4. Then Wheel up the higher radius’s sides of roof panel on N/S & O/S .
      5. This will pull on the centre of the roof maybe creating a hollow ???.
      6. which will need more wheeling to Bring this up to match the Number 17 sweep which covers most of the roof from front to back.
      7. Next week I will also check with a sweep from the front of the car to the Rear....😉
      8 . Hopefully will all end up ok.

      If you believe l,m the right track all will be ok, it’s not a massive roof.... but I need to accomplish for myself.

      thank you for reading.

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      • #4
        Make sure your windshield opening stays put. Not to worried about you but the last one I saw the customer had his mechanic weld it in. Probably did not like my estimate. Bought the panel and mig welded it in the opening his mechanic. Caved the whole roof in. Then I looked at it and he asked me what could be done (roof down probably an inch or better) I told him he could put a roof on it. He and the body shop spent a few days loading it with bondo. When it was done it looked great out of the spray booth. Windshield did not fit though.🤣 If your quiet we can probably hear it cracking. Stupid thing was his mechanic charged him 150hr vs my 50 hr add a couple days of filler and bodywork and I probably would have saved him $.

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        • #5
          Oh yes ... l will brace front and rear window opening.
          and TIG welding at around 28 on our Miller water cooled TIG should be Ok.

          my Question to Peter and Team is at the moment the main body of the Porsche roof matches a number 17 Body Sweep.......

          because l will be fitting the New Roof skin very tight for Tlg Butt welding ..... would you match the The new roof skin to match the next Sweep up (no.18 ) to allow for a small amount of welding contraction ???.

          The difference of 17 to 18 on our new sweeps is very small....

          I had read that it was supposed to be an eighth of an inch difference between each one.... on the old imperial ones.

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          • #6
            I did a sunroof delete on the E21 race car Matt. Usual issue of sweating around the cassette, plus of course it's bloody heavy just where you don't need heavy. Had to get out as far as the cant rails (?) with one of the patches and ran into sealer issues. Spent ages getting the fit of the main patch in the hole right, after wheeling it up to sit correctly over the top of the existing panel. Tacked with no filler, tapped it all up and welded in short stiches again with no filler rod. Did have a length of 0.9mig wire handy for anything which opened up. Only needed a couple of dabs. What I did find is that when I hammered it back up, I'd lost some of the overall shape of the patch and I had to raise it all up again. I think in hindsight that I would have wheeled a fraction more shape in than it needed. I also ran into issues with filing the rest of the roof, as I'd had the shell acid dipped and fine media blasted. Whilst this hadn't buckled the panel, it had peened it and it just wouldn't file. Dunno if the 944 has a roof brace, but the corrosion on the E21 had got back into that area and I had to chop the brace out to get to that area. Big job.
            Cheers, Richard

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post
              Oh yes ... l will brace front and rear window opening.
              and TIG welding at around 28 on our Miller water cooled TIG should be Ok.

              my Question to Peter and Team is at the moment the main body of the Porsche roof matches a number 17 Body Sweep.......

              because l will be fitting the New Roof skin very tight for Tlg Butt welding ..... would you match the The new roof skin to match the next Sweep up (no.18 ) to allow for a small amount of welding contraction ???.

              The difference of 17 to 18 on our new sweeps is very small....

              I had read that it was supposed to be an eighth of an inch difference between each one.... on the old imperial ones.
              If it were me I would stick with the 17. Only place that should be changed by the welding process is the Heat Affected Zone. The HAZ should be the only place that needs to be stretched back into shape after welding. I find it easier to stretch that type of panel rather than shrink it.

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              • #8
                That’s true , Because there’s more radius at the side,s of roof this should be ok.... to cushion any suck in from the small TIG weld bead.

                just a thought about going from a 17 to 18 Sweep 😉.

                our first job for our new company was quite the opposite we had a 1962 beetle with a solid roof where we had to change it into a Rag top beetle ... With a complete panel from another car, which we butt tig welded in.... The customer was blown away.... He could not tell were a welded it.
                But for a new company we needed to impress.
                Last edited by Moving molecules .; 05-30-2020, 11:17 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by skintkarter View Post
                  I did a sunroof delete on the E21 race car Matt. Usual issue of sweating around the cassette, plus of course it's bloody heavy just where you don't need heavy. Had to get out as far as the cant rails (?) with one of the patches and ran into sealer issues. Spent ages getting the fit of the main patch in the hole right, after wheeling it up to sit correctly over the top of the existing panel. Tacked with no filler, tapped it all up and welded in short stiches again with no filler rod. Did have a length of 0.9mig wire handy for anything which opened up. Only needed a couple of dabs. What I did find is that when I hammered it back up, I'd lost some of the overall shape of the patch and I had to raise it all up again. I think in hindsight that I would have wheeled a fraction more shape in than it needed. I also ran into issues with filing the rest of the roof, as I'd had the shell acid dipped and fine media blasted. Whilst this hadn't buckled the panel, it had peened it and it just wouldn't file. Dunno if the 944 has a roof brace, but the corrosion on the E21 had got back into that area and I had to chop the brace out to get to that area. Big job.
                  Richard, I remember the E21,s l used to sell parts for them,

                  Like you having second thoughts about making the crown of the roof One or two mm Higher was something that I was thinking about.

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                  • #10
                    personally i would be tempted to do the whole roof skin and weld it in as factory, they are available new without sunroof but at 8k USD i wouldn't be buying one lol.

                    just thinking now it may be easier in the long run to join across the front and rear pillars, either spending time making the whole skin or spending time dealing with the weld area.
                    thanks neil

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                    • #11
                      Today’s look at the roof.

                      1. measured and found a centre line ( O line) .
                      2. Made the paper pattern fit the roof with centre line to match centre line on roof.
                      3. Cut my metal blank.
                      4. Made many profile gauges.
                      5. Sweeps no. 17 ( matched to centre line) from left to right... 16 from front to rear over old sunroof opening.
                      6. Profile lines were marked on the paper 👍
                      7. Wheel was cleaned and panel wiped clean.
                      8. See you tomorrow night.

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                      • #12
                        All going well .. getting close to the Sweep Number,s ... blocking front of roof to Bring the front down.👍😉.

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                        • #13
                          Back looking ok ..... blocked the front edge but obviously pulled a hollow which we have now taken care of..... it’s all Fun.... this metal shaping....🧐

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                          • #14
                            Hi Matt - looks like something has screwed up with your pictures on the last post. Either that or I'm being oppressed for my religious beliefs and lack of hair.
                            Cheers, Richard

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                            • #15
                              Click image for larger version

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