Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Okay….

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Okay….

    Click image for larger version  Name:	A63EB5F8-605E-4B95-9F9E-9EE2BCDE8403.png Views:	2 Size:	696.3 KB ID:	6686 Hi Gents, Saw this post on Facebook and it’s got me thinking about how a would achieve this panel shape ….. WITHOUT thinning the edge or cutting or welding……
    Will tryout at work starting with some Peter T thinking 😎 ☁️☁️🌤
    Most would Stretch the lip ( more at apex of 3” lip ). with either the Wheel, shrinker stretcher or linear stretching die like the Gent who is trying to make a strong panel for a Aircraft.

    Thinking l need to stretch at the base of 3” lip in a closed shape ,,,, then open…. Which will help the lip come round 🤔 and not the Top.
    Last edited by Moving molecules .; 07-07-21, 08:51 AM.
    https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

  • #2
    personally i would leave the sheet blank without cutting the shape out , then stretch the area that would be cut out on a bag to start the return

    stretching with a hammer and dolly will create more surface area without pulling material from the surrounding area, that will also start to create the return without the material getting too thin
    thanks neil

    Comment


    • #3
      In order to give a proper way to do this panel I would have to see either a buck or profile of the shape BUT ! To not end up with a thin edge over that flange height, I would form the edge up by simply bend it over a pipe (to get the bottom radius ) then with a round flipper adjust the shape ( U ) on the radius and stretch it while adjusting ,...... meaning.....stretch less as possible on the top and more down towards the radius
      Peter T.

      PS one good example would be.when making a high scoop on a bonnet by cutting a smaller hole on the bonnet , turn the sides up and then welding the top of the scoop in .
      Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 07-07-21, 12:52 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't get my brain around how you would make that part without thinning the metal excessively. The problem is the height of the flange relative to the size of the cutout. Imagine if that flange were two feet tall -- the metal would be like tinfoil, because all of that area would have to come from inside the little cutout. Wouldn't it be better to make this part in two pieces and weld in the middle of the radius?

        Odd to me that this fairing is made of unweldable 2024. I always thought that 2024 was used for things like stressed wing and fuselage skins, which have little compound curvature. The swoopy fairings are typically nonstructural and just there to improve aerodynamics, so I thought they were typically made from something highly formable like 1100 or 3003.
        Last edited by joeswamp; 07-07-21, 08:37 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by joeswamp View Post
          I can't get my brain around how you would make that part without thinning the metal excessively. The problem is the height of the flange relative to the size of the cutout. Imagine if that flange were two feet tall -- the metal would be like tinfoil, because all of that area would have to come from inside the little cutout. Wouldn't it be better to make this part in two pieces and weld in the middle of the radius?

          Odd to me that this fairing is made of unweldable 2024. I always thought that 2024 was used for things like stressed wing and fuselage skins, which have little compound curvature. The swoopy fairings are typically nonstructural and just there to improve aerodynamics, so I thought they were typically made from something highly formable like 1100 or 3003.
          exactly…. Because it’s semifinal football night for us here in England will have to look up 2024 Aluminium to find out exact properties of this metal.

          It certainly looks a normal panel to make but this one has a twist…. I would presume you need to make the metal thinner (longer) near the base of the 2” radius with more near the Apex Base of the panel…… Which would need to be stretched the most.
          Last edited by Moving molecules .; 07-07-21, 09:00 PM.
          https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

          Comment


          • #6
            Click image for larger version  Name:	423CF191-9240-45C5-A9F6-8229DD4AB53A.png Views:	0 Size:	198.2 KB ID:	6702

            What is friction welding…..???

            quite busy at mo but will find the time to make this panel for Fun.
            Last edited by Moving molecules .; 08-07-21, 06:43 PM.
            https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

            Comment


            • #7
              Friction welding is where you spin one piece of metal and then press it into another, the heat generated by friction does the welding. This is a common way to make engine valves, because you want the stem and the head of the valve to have very different properties. Here is what it looks like:

              https://youtu.be/Q9KzDQM4Sko?t=24

              There is probably some way to friction weld sheet metal together, imagine it's used in some high end aerospace application.

              2024 aluminum is the standard high strength alloy they've traditionally made stressed aircraft skins from. Technically you can weld it using traditional techniques, but then it loses all its strength benefits. This is why aircraft skins are riveted.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by joeswamp View Post
                Friction welding is where you spin one piece of metal and then press it into another, the heat generated by friction does the welding. This is a common way to make engine valves, because you want the stem and the head of the valve to have very different properties. Here is what it looks like:

                https://youtu.be/Q9KzDQM4Sko?t=24

                There is probably some way to friction weld sheet metal together, imagine it's used in some high end aerospace application.

                2024 aluminum is the standard high strength alloy they've traditionally made stressed aircraft skins from. Technically you can weld it using traditional techniques, but then it loses all its strength benefits. This is why aircraft skins are riveted.

                learnt Something…. Would love to spend some time in the aircraft world .

                https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=joeswamp;n6695]I . Wouldn't it be better to make this part in two pieces and weld in the middle of the radius?

                  welding in the middle of the radius is something that you need to avoid ,
                  The way to do this if a piece of material needs to be added and welded is to turn the flange up about 1 /1 and half inch away from the radius , then welded and try to avoid any heat sinking the return . As far as stretching a large flange (large within reason) the stretching must be started from the very start of the flange , this way the top of the flange does not get too thin
                  Peter T.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post

                    …. Because it’s semifinal football night for us here in England will have to look up 2024 Aluminium to find out exact properties of this metal.
                    So you are a football fan ........ it's Italy against England , going by past performance of the two teams who do you think is going to win ?

                    Peter T.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
                      welding in the middle of the radius is something that you need to avoid ,
                      Thanks for the correction -- would be difficult to metal finish the weld there. I was thinking about minimally stretching the metal and wasn't considering anything else...




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	B8742D68-CE05-4984-895E-2D43F9C1A710.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.76 MB ID:	6711 Click image for larger version  Name:	41E73BE8-1462-4F6E-A22A-C2D0A2B4498A.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	1.75 MB ID:	6710 Click image for larger version  Name:	087A196F-B7D7-4BDE-95E6-709C4F1DFBBF.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	2.01 MB ID:	6712 [QUOTE=Peter Tommasini;n6707]
                        Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post

                        …. Because it’s semifinal football night for us here in England will have to look up 2024 Aluminium to find out exact properties of this metal.

                        So you are a football fan ........ it's Italy against England , going by past performance of the two teams who do you think is going to win ?

                        Peter T.


                        Love it Pete….. no I don’t really follow football but I do like to chill out and now and again and go Sea Match Fishing at Pevensey, but like all country’s of the World we all come together to support our country.

                        who’s going to win………………………

                        well it’s like this Ferrari ( Italian) and the piss poor DB2/4 Mklll Aston Martin l made. ( England ) can make cars like this then the score will be ……….

                        1…………1

                        no cars were harmed during this slagging off exercise…..😂😂😂😂😉

                        Last edited by Moving molecules .; 09-07-21, 10:30 AM.
                        https://www.precisionpanelcraft.co.uk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Peter Tommasini;n6706]
                          Originally posted by joeswamp View Post
                          I . Wouldn't it be better to make this part in two pieces and weld in the middle of the radius?
                          welding in the middle of the radius is something that you need to avoid ,
                          The way to do this if a piece of material needs to be added and welded is to turn the flange up about 1 /1 and half inch away from the radius , then welded and try to avoid any heat sinking the return . As far as stretching a large flange (large within reason) the stretching must be started from the very start of the flange , this way the top of the flange does not get too thin
                          Peter T.



                          thanks neil

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Moving molecules . View Post
                            Click image for larger version Name:	A63EB5F8-605E-4B95-9F9E-9EE2BCDE8403.png Views:	2 Size:	696.3 KB ID:	6686 Hi Gents, Saw this post on Facebook and it’s got me thinking about how a would achieve this panel shape ….. WITHOUT thinning the edge or cutting or welding……
                            Will tryout at work starting with some Peter T thinking 😎 ☁️☁️🌤
                            Most would Stretch the lip ( more at apex of 3” lip ). with either the Wheel, shrinker stretcher or linear stretching die like the Gent who is trying to make a strong panel for a Aircraft.

                            Thinking l need to stretch at the base of 3” lip in a closed shape ,,,, then open…. Which will help the lip come round 🤔 and not the Top.
                            It would be interesting to get the opinion on how to do this panel from "Kent White" on the other forum (AMS).
                            He does lots of aircraft panels and has years and years of experience with them.
                            I have seen you over on that forum so getting his take on it would be easy.
                            Then perhaps post his reply here if that's ok.
                            That would give you one more very good opinion on the panel.
                            David Bradbury

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi,

                              I have made these in the past, mine were slightly smaller for tail fairings on a C-47. The way I explained it to the original Facebook poster is as follows. The panel is a reverse curve and to make it, layout three paper patterns. The first pattern is with slits in the paper only on the short flange of the 2 inch radius. The second pattern is with slits in the paper on the large field of the two inch radius. The third pattern is with slits in the paper on both sides of the radius. With the third pattern you will see that stretching both sides of the radius is necessary, to prevent large material thickness loss on the short flange from the two inch radius. Once the panel is shaped, further stretching of the large field of the panel is needed to flatten it back out. With the panels I made, I only loss .005" -.008" of material at the edge.

                              Several items about 2024 aluminum. It is not an acceptable practice by the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) to weld this material in any location or stress loads when mounted on any aircraft. The heat affect zone from any weld process except resistance and friction welding will cause the development of inner granular corrosion and cracking due to the interaction of the solid solution of copper in the material.

                              Substitution of material is not encouraged for most applications. These panels were made using 2024 and they should be remade using 2024 with no welding.

                              The original Facebook poster is on All Metal Shaping and I would leave it up to him, if he so chooses to post on his project.

                              B

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X