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  • cliffrod
    replied
    Originally posted by Chazza View Post
    Just re-read this thread and was surprised to see that I had written something....

    Cheers Charlie
    these are likely the most honest words that will ever be posted here.. Glad I'm not alone. Thanks for the smile, Charlie.
    Last edited by cliffrod; 07-07-21, 12:48 AM. Reason: old age

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  • Chazza
    replied
    Just re-read this thread and was surprised to see that I had written something. Must be old age.

    Anyway in response to a couple of posts;

    * Flux for tinning, is zinc chloride, I think. When I was a boy, an elderly friend would make his own by putting a piece of zinc in hydrochloric acid. The gas given off is hydrogen, so no naked flames. When the zinc stops fizzing the flux has been formed. An old name for this was "killed spirits". American members will know Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) as muriatic acid. I found it far more convenient to buy Baker's Soldering Fluid, because Mr Baker had already killed the spirits for me.

    * Someone asked why bother using the 60/40 solder first. If the metal is scrupulously clean, it is extremely easy to tin and the solder flows well to cover the entire surface. Body solder does not stick easily to bare steel but it will bond to solder easily.

    Why not use flux paste? Probably expense I suspect. I have never used the paste so I don't know.

    Cheers Charlie

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  • Ron Kirkpatrick
    replied
    I’ve been doing leading this way since the 1970’s I still do it to this day.
    Click image for larger version

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  • Steve Murphy
    replied
    Going back about 40 years ago I worked at a GM plant that built Buick’s and Oldsmobile’s and I ground the lead filled seams on the roof joints the leading guys did just beforehand. My memory is they had a tinning flux they brushed on and heat it with a torch and wiped it with a cloth. They still used wood paddles and tallow and lead sticks back then. And all of us grinding the lead had to have a blood test every two weeks to check if the lead was getting too high. 😬

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  • Jaymce
    replied
    The only thing I do different from what has been outlined is after tinning I do a hot wipe with a cloth. I then clean all the excess residue / flux with baking soda or tsp and water. While not necessary as someone pointed out I feel it is a precautionary measure. I then clean again with coarse steel wool and acetone to remove any soda / tsp residue .

    Now I begin to load the lead. The 70/30 is much easier to work.

    you have to get enough on in the first pass as it is very difficult to go back and add more.

    I learned a bit over the last few years at World of Wheels shows. Amazing to watch Winfield work lead. Watched min lead a 50 Merc from the center of the windshield to the center of the cowl including the pillar keeping it all in a plastic state.

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  • Moving molecules .
    replied
    Originally posted by Chazza View Post
    Step Number 9.

    I cant see any need to wash the flux off; it will boil off as the solder and/ or heat is applied. I have done a lot of soldering of seams over the years, usually on sheet metal work and never had a problem, as long as the work is washed in water afterwards.

    Cheers Charlie
    Hi Charlie, For me it was just a preventative Measure really.... you know the Brown stuff you sometimes get.

    l wash this off before I File with a 8TPI File.

    May be a bit OTT.....

    lead gets a bad rap by many painters....😊
    Last edited by Moving molecules .; 04-01-21, 07:23 AM.

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  • Moving molecules .
    replied
    Hi Chris, the extra Tin ( 40% ) side of Tinmans Solder helps it to adhere to the metal....


    So for the Modern way ,you would like to think if you have bought a good quality paste this Should have the same 60/40 ratio but grind up to make the more modern paste type.

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  • Chris_Hamilton
    replied
    May I ask what the advantage of using the tinmans solder is? Probably just my ignorance but what is the advantage of doing it that way versus the more commonly known way using 30/70?
    Last edited by Chris_Hamilton; 04-01-21, 05:38 AM.

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  • Chazza
    replied
    Step Number 9.

    I cant see any need to wash the flux off; it will boil off as the solder and/ or heat is applied. I have done a lot of soldering of seams over the years, usually on sheet metal work and never had a problem, as long as the work is washed in water afterwards.

    Cheers Charlie

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  • Moving molecules .
    replied
    Originally posted by Chazza View Post
    'Is there a practical way to flux (not sure if that's the right term- maybe Charlie knows) the molten solder during reclaiming to capture impurities as dross so they can be removed for better performance later?' Cliffrod.

    If the solder scraps were melted in a graphite or clay crucible at a low temp to prevent boiling of the lead and tin, any dross can be skimmed off the top after stirring.

    I suspect that you and MM are correct, in assuming that high melt temperatures and impurities cause problems.

    Only one way to find out,

    Cheers Charlie
    Spot on Charlie, skimming off the impurities is the way to go.

    I think some of the problems I have faced I think some of the problems I have faced is Old Flux .

    I think I would like to do some Leading this year but like the Old Method I was shown at evening college.

    1. Clean to bare metal extremely well.

    2. then do it again.....👍 80grit.

    3. warm up the metal to take out moisture.

    4. apply new Flux .....( let’s try some makes too see which is best).

    5 . Apply Tinmans Solder 60 Lead 40 Tin.

    6. As Morris Workshop manual advises..... Re - Flux
    over Tinmans Solder so BodySolder can Adhere ???........ This is the bit I cannot remember from years ago.

    7. Shape Lead with Maple wood paddles or Custom bread knife blades.

    8. Dlp puddles in Tallow but wipe of All excess...👍

    9. I think this is important .... to clean off all FLUX residue with Warm water before Lead Filling ....
    my thinking is you are preventing pushing the Flux residue into the New Lead.

    10. File Lead and Shape.

    11. Finish by more warm water and maybe add I bicarbonate of soda which ups the pH of the water to neutralise the acid.

    12. and to be sure you cleaned .... clean area with Thinners.

    like I say I haven’t done this method for 20 years so please amend if you have any tips and tricks.

    cheers Matt.
    Last edited by Moving molecules .; 04-01-21, 07:22 AM.

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  • Chazza
    replied
    Gardiner's Youtube movie; from memory he tins first with 60/40.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUwBxIm03Jc

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  • Chazza
    replied

    'Is there a practical way to flux (not sure if that's the right term- maybe Charlie knows) the molten solder during reclaiming to capture impurities as dross so they can be removed for better performance later?' Cliffrod.

    If the solder scraps were melted in a graphite or clay crucible at a low temp to prevent boiling of the lead and tin, any dross can be skimmed off the top after stirring.

    I suspect that you and MM are correct, in assuming that high melt temperatures and impurities cause problems.

    Only one way to find out,

    Cheers Charlie

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    Originally posted by OldnEK View Post
    I would only use the 30/70 for body work, as it work like butter, Easy melt and adherence, blends into remounted solder after dressing and doesn't get air entrapment if and after you have applied it and dressed it out.
    The 40/60 tends to be brittle a lot harder to work and very hard to remelt into itself if you have to build it up.
    I use the Bakers flux and after tinning wash the whole work area to neutralise the flux, any residual burns and bubbles, so easy to tell where you've missed.
    During work I keep the floor clean and Filings are swept up and I remelt those back into sticks, using a Camp cooker and pot, You mustn't overheat the the filings otherwise adherence issues will be a bugger, the sticks need to be shiny not whitish with a opaque appearance, is so don't use them to build up your work as melt into existing work will show cracking at the edges or peel off.
    They say lead is Dangerous, But if Billy Hines smoked and slung lead all his life then it cant be to bad.
    Is there a practical way to flux (not sure if that's the right term- maybe Charlie knows) the molten solder during reclaiming to capture impurities as dross so they can be removed for better performance later?

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  • OldnEK
    replied
    Few more from the E Type I restored.

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  • OldnEK
    replied
    I would only use the 30/70 for body work, as it work like butter, Easy melt and adherence, blends into remounted solder after dressing and doesn't get air entrapment if and after you have applied it and dressed it out.
    The 40/60 tends to be brittle a lot harder to work and very hard to remelt into itself if you have to build it up.
    I use the Bakers flux and after tinning wash the whole work area to neutralise the flux, any residual burns and bubbles, so easy to tell where you've missed.
    During work I keep the floor clean and Filings are swept up and I remelt those back into sticks, using a Camp cooker and pot, You mustn't overheat the the filings otherwise adherence issues will be a bugger, the sticks need to be shiny not whitish with a opaque appearance, is so don't use them to build up your work as melt into existing work will show cracking at the edges or peel off.
    They say lead is Dangerous, But if Billy Hines smoked and slung lead all his life then it cant be to bad.

    Leave a comment:

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