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  • #16
    I found a free .pdf of "The Five Orders of Architecture"

    Great write-ups!

    http://www.chenarch.com/images/arch-...ive-Orders.pdf

    Jake

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    • cliffrod
      cliffrod commented
      Editing a comment
      Very cool- great to see you here, Jake. Welcome to the forum.

  • #17
    Hi Jake welcome to the forum
    Peter T.

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    • #18
      Thanks fellas, happy to be here.

      I used a lot of what you're talking about (although I was unaware of any of the technical terms) for a back half I did for a guy on a CB350. First, the rear swing arm has been stretched 2" to lengthen the wheelbase a bit, and give it a more "racey" feel and allow room for the monoshock. Second, you'll see the monoshock and upper swing arm brace are perpendicular to the angled tube supporting the seat hoop, which is also parallel to the vertical braces on the swing arm. The seat hoop maintains the same horizon line as the bottom of the tank, although slightly elevated (a seat pan will match the bottom tank line (I hope, I'm not making it). In addition, that horizon line is slightly inclined to the rear to give the bike an aggressive look., although it's a bit difficult to see in this picture as it's on uneven ground. Finally, the rear hoop ends in front of the rear axle centerline, and vertex of the tire, again to aid in the aggressive look.



      Click image for larger version  Name:	Raleigh Motor Bike.jpg Views:	0 Size:	229.6 KB ID:	1984

      Stock bike for comparison's sake:

      Click image for larger version  Name:	Stock CB350.jpg Views:	0 Size:	98.6 KB ID:	1987
      Last edited by memphisrain; 10-25-2019, 02:31 PM.

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      • #19
        Originally posted by memphisrain View Post
        Thanks fellas, happy to be here.

        I used a lot of what you're talking about (although I was unaware of any of the technical terms) for a back half I did for a guy on a CB350. First, the rear swing arm has been stretched 2" to lengthen the wheelbase a bit, and give it a more "racey" feel and allow room for the monoshock. Second, you'll see the monoshock and upper swing arm brace are perpendicular to the angled tube supporting the seat hoop, which is also parallel to the vertical braces on the swing arm. The seat hoop maintains the same horizon line as the bottom of the tank, although slightly elevated (a seat pan will match the bottom tank line (I hope, I'm not making it). In addition, that horizon line is slightly inclined to the rear to give the bike an aggressive look., although it's a bit difficult to see in this picture as it's on uneven ground. Finally, the rear hoop ends in front of the rear axle centerline, and vertex of the tire, again to aid in the aggressive look.



        Click image for larger version Name:	Raleigh Motor Bike.jpg Views:	0 Size:	229.6 KB ID:	1984

        Stock bike for comparison's sake:

        {"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tStock CB350.jpg Views:\t0 Size:\t98.6 KB ID:\t1987","data-align":"none","data-":"1987","data-size":"full"}
        It's great to see what you're working on, Jake. I had to learn about most of this design theory & application along the way and after the fact. Being able to articulate the specifics has helped a lot when discussing projects with patrons. When I can easily explain the "why", it builds confidence in relationships and ultimately in your portfolio. That's the end goal. Hopefully discussing it here might help others do the same.

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        • #20
          When developing a 3D composition, especially from 2D methods, it's important to understand the difference between drawing a line and creating an edge. Many people don't actively consider this fact preemptively. When the actual 3D form is made, it can be difficult to justify it with the 2D renderings. Drawing several views of the same object can help, but only if these drawings represent a shape with edges that can properly transition between the various representations.

          i have worked with many drawings of sculpture projects that lack complete information. Usually there will be areas that are just shaded. Big fail. I can't carve a shadow. I have to create shape that creates shadow while also carving something in that shadowed area. Drawing a curved or complex shape to be made from metal presents the same challenges. Adding a few scribbles isn't enough and Miscommunication is a very real risk. Sometimes a fanciful shape will be shown from one perspective that is completely impractical or impossible to justify with surrounding detail.

          make sure to consider how the proposed shape will create the edge that the line in a drawing describes. Make sure to properly address how shape can cause a line to change, as well as top vs bottom or inside vs outside of the shape. It's not hard to overlook little things, especially if you are working alone. If you're fielding drawing done by someone else, be prepared to address them in a professional manner. Most regular customers don't "see" in shapes- they can only comprehend a finished shape, not the means to achieve that shape. many 2D artists never have to produce or transition their concepts into 3D and will assume the 3D expert will automatically know what they mean, That's why I strive to do as much of not all of my own artwork in 2D and 3D. Compared to others I see as talented artists, I'm not a very good 2D artist or draftsman. But, if I draw it, I can address all the pitfalls I can recognize as soon as possible. I get better at every job. Practice is always good.

          Comment


          • #21
            Below is content regarding development of a custom automotive grill. Thought I should include similar content in this thread.

            It's necessary to consider the context and lighting in which the composition will be viewed. When I cut a stone in studio, what it looks like in studio is largely irrelevant. This is a detail many sculptors who are not professionally trained will overlook. 16'-20' to the rafters seems huge compared to an 8' shop ceiling but means nothing compared to the sky outdoors. I have to produce work to demonstrate properly in supremely overwhelming natural light and the giant studio of the outdoors. Natural light is so invasive that it clarifies details (good and bad) that no electric light can. A huge job in studio is tiny outdoors. The big jobs always shrink as they go out the door and then shrink even more once they're installed... It's just another way God and the stone humbles the sculptor.

            Details can be 100% dimensionally accurate per specs but still look vastly different whether indoors or outdoors- especially actual penetrations and negative space between solid surfaces. Solid or continous mass is impacted differently, but is also perceived differently indoors vs outdoors.

            Everything I sculpt and carve is done with these things in mind. The work has to be successful in the context of the installation, not in the artificial and temporary manipulated context of the studio. I have to understand what I think looks right now and what will look right then to succeed.

            An item like a custom automotive grill will be primarily experienced outdoors, not the confines of a small (by comparison) shop. I would address many of these grill considerations with the vehicle outside. Both negative space between solids and illumination of components now hidden in darkness will be more readily perceived. You may find the things now concealed in shadow behind the grill are a bigger issue visually. Addressing such details often impact the more superficial components. Simply moving it outside will shrink details, probably even lightening the shadows between the grill bars. That could make the grill bars appear thicker and the holes between them look not quite as big.

            Natural light is a very powerful factor. It is different in color than much artificial light and is of much higher energy than artificial light. In translating a concept from 2D to 3D, you transition from drawing/defining a line to creating an edge to represent that drawn line. this can be the physical end of a object or the viewed end of a receding shape. Natural light bounces off surrounding objects all around, behind and beneath an object. This additional light can backlight an object and change the way that end or edge of shape is viewed. Detail and edges may be softened or even disappear. It's nice to manage and manipulate light very specifically in studio/shop but it's critical to incorporate significant outdoor study (ideally at different times with different light conditions) into the design process.

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            • #22
              Great thread, its good to know there are proper terms for concepts that we innately understand but have been unable to describe, like the 'Golden Rule', I knew there had to be one but this is the first time I've learned it had a proper name and ratio. thanks for that. It looks like I'll need to do some reading.

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by ojh View Post
                Great thread, its good to know there are proper terms for concepts that we innately understand but have been unable to describe, like the 'Golden Rule', I knew there had to be one but this is the first time I've learned it had a proper name and ratio. thanks for that. It looks like I'll need to do some reading.
                Welcome to the forum.

                A good point to remember is that these "rules" have more to do with providing a consistent way to quantitatively describe or produce aspect ratios like height vs width than being an absolute standard for every situation. Nature is full of minor variations that make objects and organisms look appealing and unique while still being quickly and easily interpreted by the viewer. When the variations are averaged together, the resulting values and ratios provide the basis for the rules.

                Being successful as an artist or craftsman often means intentionally manipulating these "rules" in a subtle but obvious way without overdoing it to produce a specifc result. My goal here is to make others better aware of things they may already know but not understand or employ deliberately, simply because no one has ever told them. These rules and theories are just more tools in a toolbox.

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                • #24
                  I had a call today about a pending stone project. The details discussed are relevant here.

                  A composition or specific area of a composition will have an overall horizontal, vertical or neutral (horizontal & vertical are equal/equivalent) characteristic. Details included in the composition/area can be used to guide or direct the viewer. This is related to visual noise. The detail can facilitate, arrest or foil the act of viewing.

                  For example relevant here, consider these three functions regarding the area of transition between a horizontal hood/cowl to windshield to roof on a custom car.

                  Facilitate- the detail used is a rearward-angled windshield, sloping away from the hood to guide the viewer's eye to the roof quickly. The angle of the windshield is employed to help the windshield (or A pillars) disappear. It only prompts a quick look by the viewer with no need to stop and think. The detail is so obvious and logical, it disappears. No visual noise. In terms of the car, this is a streamlined look meant to make the car look faster, modern and more efficient.

                  Arrest- the detail used is a vertical windshield, basically square to the hood and roof. This makes it an obvious transition as a direct change in height. The viewer sees and comprehends this detail instantaneously. No need to stop and think about it, but it is an obvious and definitive detail with a clear beginning and end. This is minor visual noise, but can be significant. Think of an early Ford Model T coupe, called a "phone booth" with the dominant large vertical detail in comparisons to a later Model A or 1932 Ford with still vertical but much shorter vertical windshield. Such a square transition windshield is a stoic detail, somewhat archaic or meant to show a disregard for some or all streamlining. Combined with a big (visible) engine in a hotrod, it conveys a sense of gross or excess power that can easily overcome such obstacles.

                  Foil- the detail used is something like a windshield visor, added above the windshield to extend away from the windshield/roof intersection back over the hood. In a streamlined composition, like most cars are, this detail can confound a viewer. (This is strong visual noise). The viewer will see this detail and have to stop in some manner to evaluate the combination of the windshield/A pillar angle, the roof intersection, the visor shape and angle, etc. making the viewer stop, look and think about this detail or area of detail is a deliberate ploy. This detail is more appropriate to pleasure use than performance because a detail like that doesn't fit as well on a high performance race car.

                  When designing a composition or composition detail, take into consideration how you want a viewer to interpret what you are producing. The use of a proper detail,especially at points of transition, can strengthen your result. Some people squint, especially in low light, to see which parts of a composition are dominant and which ones disappear or become fuzzy first. Once they're identified, it's easier to isolate and then fine tune them to direct the viewing experience.

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