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  • Ecrafton1986
    replied
    Originally posted by OldnEK View Post
    Time to get a new customer, Seriously, you mentioned you are a newby and said there is no charge for the job, and he still has the hide to criticise your work. I have seen the post on the work you carried out on the doors and I can tell you now you have done a 100% better job than most beaters would of done, You have done a great job in providing a rust free lower replacement panel, yeah sure! there maybe a skim of filler, but a darn site less than what a panel shop would throw in there.
    Keep up the good work, and don't let it get you down.
    Thank you! I will not do anything for him again, I know now where I struggle and the only thing to do is practice and improve!

    Leave a comment:


  • OldnEK
    replied
    Time to get a new customer, Seriously, you mentioned you are a newby and said there is no charge for the job, and he still has the hide to criticise your work. I have seen the post on the work you carried out on the doors and I can tell you now you have done a 100% better job than most beaters would of done, You have done a great job in providing a rust free lower replacement panel, yeah sure! there maybe a skim of filler, but a darn site less than what a panel shop would throw in there.
    Keep up the good work, and don't let it get you down.

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    Originally posted by Chazza View Post
    A friend of mine once said to his students, who claimed that their work was excellent – "If this was for sale in a shop, would you pay money for it?"

    The honest ones said no, and pointed out the flaws.

    I use that saying every time I inspect my automotive castings, before posting them to my customers; so far in 20 years only one has come back to me, for a porosity problem that couldn't be seen by eye.

    Sounds like your customer, is a customer from Hell but remember that the customer is always right! Even if he is wrong.

    When my English Wheel arrives I am going to start practising on small scale tasks. Someone on Allmetal, made a miniature wheel arch using Peter's Monaro DVD to guide him,

    Cheers Charlie
    Charlie is right on this one.

    if you're really honest with yourself, the better you get the more you understand how much you need to learn and improve. The work will humble you in ways you weren't capable of understanding before... Much like Neil says about the last percentage of a task requiring the majority of the work/expertise. The career path to becoming a true expert is no different.

    as far as the customer-friend-never again- whatever... I cannot tell you what to do, but this is what I do. Do my best, be honest and be clear from the beginning (about your fees, schedule, job scope, etc) about what I do. There's some people I don't pursue or wish to work with any longer, but having an asshole contest only means the winner is the biggest asshole. Drop it, move on, no names, etc. unless it gets into legal damages, let the other person clearly win that contest. If you plan to be in a business long-term, winning that little battle now may have bigger long term detriment. And this probably won't be the only bad experience, so learn well from it.

    One of my former employers & mentors liked to use the metaphor of a mosquito on an elephant's butt. That bite might be a pain in the butt, but it's not worth the elephant's effort to kill that one bug. The customer may complain, but the reason he's your customer is because he isn't doing it or cannot do it himself. Be the elephant, not the mosquito.

    Leave a comment:


  • neilb
    replied
    Originally posted by Ecrafton1986 View Post

    I appreciate all the feed back, here’s the other thing had he brought this to my attention I would have addressed his concerns and said let me fix it, instead he’s bad mouthing me to another close friend, that also really bums me out. I did go over the areas with a straight edge/ yard stick so I honestly now how much filler should be there. The other kicker is the door was full of filler I had to sand it all off to get to clean metal. This is a hobby for me Iam wanting to turn this into a full time job, Iam the same way stuck in a boring job that I dread going to I feel at 33years old I need to make a career change still unsure what it’s gonna take to make this a full time job! I agree that I need to really work on my on dolly off dolly skill set, as the last little bit really seems to challenge me the most.

    as i say to the apprentice we have at work 'the first 90% takes 10% effort, the last 10% takes 90% effort and that's when you see people reaching for the filler tin'

    life is full of lesson's, choosing your friends is one of them. i'm not saying he is not a friend in one way but bad mouthing you when he knows you are still learning to other's tells me he is not a friend at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chazza
    replied
    A friend of mine once said to his students, who claimed that their work was excellent – "If this was for sale in a shop, would you pay money for it?"

    The honest ones said no, and pointed out the flaws.

    I use that saying every time I inspect my automotive castings, before posting them to my customers; so far in 20 years only one has come back to me, for a porosity problem that couldn't be seen by eye.

    Sounds like your customer, is a customer from Hell but remember that the customer is always right! Even if he is wrong.

    When my English Wheel arrives I am going to start practising on small scale tasks. Someone on Allmetal, made a miniature wheel arch using Peter's Monaro DVD to guide him,

    Cheers Charlie

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris_Hamilton
    replied
    Completely disagree with you Pugsy. If you are trying to do this type of work(metalwork, restoration, paint) for a living, those types of customers are never satisfied, they want to pay as little as possible, nitpick, and for a guy just getting started can put you out of business. Learning to choose the correct customers is as important as learning the skills.

    Ecrafton if you do decide to change careers, go to work for someone else before you go out on your own. I cannot emphasize that enough. You need to build your skill set before trying to make a living doing this on your own or you will be in for a lot of pain.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ecrafton1986
    replied
    Originally posted by 123pugsy View Post
    Maybe you should also set an amount of how much filler would be required before starting a project. A flexible yard stick and a thickness gauge to check between it and the surface of the panels will be an exact measurement. No one could tell you that "it will need more than a 1/4" of bondo because you've already carefully checked.

    Keep practicing! I sure wish I could do something I love as a job. I'm stuck in a job that I find so boring, it's like a prison sentence...7 years to go....
    I appreciate all the feed back, here’s the other thing had he brought this to my attention I would have addressed his concerns and said let me fix it, instead he’s bad mouthing me to another close friend, that also really bums me out. I did go over the areas with a straight edge/ yard stick so I honestly now how much filler should be there. The other kicker is the door was full of filler I had to sand it all off to get to clean metal. This is a hobby for me Iam wanting to turn this into a full time job, Iam the same way stuck in a boring job that I dread going to I feel at 33years old I need to make a career change still unsure what it’s gonna take to make this a full time job! I agree that I need to really work on my on dolly off dolly skill set, as the last little bit really seems to challenge me the most.

    Leave a comment:


  • 123pugsy
    replied
    Maybe you should also set an amount of how much filler would be required before starting a project. A flexible yard stick and a thickness gauge to check between it and the surface of the panels will be an exact measurement. No one could tell you that "it will need more than a 1/4" of bondo because you've already carefully checked.

    Keep practicing! I sure wish I could do something I love as a job. I'm stuck in a job that I find so boring, it's like a prison sentence...7 years to go....

    Leave a comment:


  • 123pugsy
    replied
    I looked at the pics in your door thread and they look pretty good, but the angle doesn't show if there are waves in the panel.
    Overall they look good. Especially for the price paid.

    Leave a comment:


  • 123pugsy
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris_Hamilton View Post
    First off NEVER do anything for this guy in the future. He has showed you his true colors. He will never be satisfied with anything you do for him. You didn't charge him anything, he knew you are learning, and he still gripes. That is fairly typical in this business unfortunately so don't let it get you down. Keep practicing, learning and trying to do your best, and each job you do will be better. Nobody was born knowing how to do this, it takes time and practice. Peter's DVD's are a good place to start if you don't already have them.
    I'd have to disagree. A critic that points out every wave and flaw could help on the road to achieve better results.
    If I were the OP, I'd get the doors back, post up some questions here about on and off dolly work and move forward to being able to service clients. A great learning opportunity is within grasp. Even if it's not 1/4", if it's 3/16", I consider this way too much for a door that gets banged a lot.

    I spent a ton of time smoothing this deck lid after welding a poorly shaped patch on. The learning experience was quite fantastic though.

    I wonder if the OP's friend would feel about being presented with the lid in the last shot. Not perfect, but pretty good. I'm certain if I presented the part to him before I did the finish work, he would have called me a hack, which would have been correct.


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  • Chris_Hamilton
    replied
    See if you can get DVD's 7,8, and 9 as well. Those 3 are where Peter makes the 1/4 panel in one piece. Really amazing and he communicates the techniques so clearly in those three DVD's. If I only had the cash for three those would be the ones I'd get.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ecrafton1986
    replied
    Thank you for the kind words I have made a mental note to never do anything for him ever again. I feel it could have been a little better but honestly it was good quality work better then what I seen some people pay for. One thing I need to get better about is practicing I don’t really practice at all the only time I do is when Iam doing something for someone, my goal is to be practicing at least 2 days a week. I’ll be asking the wife for 4,5,6 of peters dvd’s I already have 1,2,3 and David Gardner’s DVD’s I watch them over and over on my down time at home.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris_Hamilton
    replied
    First off NEVER do anything for this guy in the future. He has showed you his true colors. He will never be satisfied with anything you do for him. You didn't charge him anything, he knew you are learning, and he still gripes. That is fairly typical in this business unfortunately so don't let it get you down. Keep practicing, learning and trying to do your best, and each job you do will be better. Nobody was born knowing how to do this, it takes time and practice. Peter's DVD's are a good place to start if you don't already have them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ecrafton1986
    replied
    I did this job for free didn’t charge for anything, he was fully aware that I was a amateur and I took this car on to build my skills this was the first car that I made all the patches for

    Leave a comment:


  • cliffrod
    replied
    As perspective, realize that formal apprenticeship or thorough training side-by-side with an appropriate expert would entail at least 2 years (if not many more) of full time labor before most people would be ready to service a project independently. Working & learning on your own is a tough path. So be realistic about what is possible and who will help make it possible.

    Always strive to run in such a way that you may win the race.

    Leave a comment:

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